Episode 005 - Danielle Guy

In this episode, I welcome Danielle Guy! Danielle is a well-rounded artist who is currently pursuing her passion of directing plays and musicals. She shares about one of the most difficult directing experiences she's had by tackling a very controversial musical. 

 

Get in touch with Danielle Guy: https://danielledirects.com/

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Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

 

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 005 - Danielle Guy

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, hello, welcome back to Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining me again. I'm Lindsey, and I am so excited to have the wonderful Danielle Guy on our podcast today. She is a wonderful human being, but also an artist and just has so many amazing. stories to tell about life, about art, and I'm just so excited to have her. So thank you so much, Danielle, for joining us. We're so happy!

[00:01:04] Danielle Guy: Yes, and thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Well, can you share a little bit about who you are and your involvement in art and all that fun stuff?

[00:01:14]Danielle Guy: Yeah, so I have kind of dipped my toes into a lot of different art styles, with dance and music; I was for the longest time a pianist and opera singer, and then I went into theater, which is kind of where I found my, my niche. And I started out acting specifically in classical works, with Shakespeare. But as time has developed, I have really found my position as a director. And it's, it's fun to see how things have changed and morphed over the years from, you know, thinking I was one thing and then leading into this place that I never thought I'd be.  I had a theater company for a while as well, and now I'm just doing freelance, freelance directing work.

[00:02:08]Lindsey Dinneen:  Awesome. And, I just have to caveat. So Danielle is my adopted cousin, just to give some context, and I can attest to the fact that she was probably always born for theater, because--do you want to just share a little bit about your birthday parties?

[00:02:31] Danielle Guy: Oh, my God. Okay. So I was such a weird kid. So when I think it was the first time we did this, I might have been eight. I had these books that was like Shakespeare for kids. And I got inspired by them and I told my mom that for my birthday, I wanted to have a Shakespeare party and we're going to-- the first one was "12th Night." I was like, we're going to put on a play of "12th Night." And so  I  made all my friends come over and I told them what roles that they would be, and we would create, like, it was probably like 10 to 15 minutes versions of Shakespeare's plays. And we did that for four years.

[00:03:23] Lindsey Dinneen: It was so fun.

[00:03:24] Danielle Guy: Oh my gosh, thank you! And then remember we used to do the American Girl doll plays all the time.

[00:03:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that, but you're right, we did. That was so fun.

[00:03:35] Danielle Guy: And I was Marta in the Kirsten story, and my death scene was impeccable.

[00:03:41] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm sure it was. So all that to say, it really--those of us who've known her, it comes as no surprise that eventually she would become a director and have had her own company and all of that jazz. But no, we had hours and hours of  so much fun putting together these plays. And I think if I remember correctly for "Romeo and Juliet," I'm pretty sure we had to have like a progressive theater experience for the audience because we did the balcony scene, like, on the landing of the stairs or something?

[00:04:17] Danielle Guy: Yes. Yeah, it was a, it was definitely situational art . It was very ahead of its time.

[00:04:23]Lindsey Dinneen: I hope there's video footage. I don't think I ever want to see it, but just to know it exists.

[00:04:28] Danielle Guy: My mom has all of them. I never want to see it ever, but I know it exists.

[00:04:34]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes, those were some great memories right there, but I know you have probably a bazillion stories to tell, but, yeah, we'd love to share with you, and if there's anything in particular that stands out.

[00:04:47] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So a lot of things that people don't understand when they think of, like, theater--and I will even say some theaters take themselves a little too seriously. And when you go in there, like this is the vision, this is how it's going to go. And this is how it will always go and there will be no change,  but I feel like a lot of people don't realize the flexibility and also the, the acceptance that you have to have going in as a director, because you see it in like, movies and TV shows all the time of the trope of the director who's a tyrant and everything must go their way, but honestly, we have to answer to a lot of people. And we also have to take into account just what materially you have to work with--there are actors and their limitations. And, you will go into something thinking that it's going to look one way, but the end product is completely different.

[00:05:49] And I think the one that, that really showed up as was the past production that I did, which was "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I did that at Dominion Stage in Arlington. It's the first one that I did since I moved to the DC area. And just to give you an idea, I was not supposed to direct that musical. At all. I went in first with a proposal for a play called "City of Conversation."

[00:06:19] It's a straight play. It's very much up my alley. Typically I do small cast family-led dramas, not musicals. I've done a few here and there, but that was very much my niche, and they really liked that. But then they were trying to flush out their season and they're like, "Well, we really don't have a main stage musical. Do you have a proposal for a main stage musical?" And I had one for "Next to Normal," which is one of my favorite musicals in the entire world. And so they decided after I gave a presentation to go with that and I was like, "Cool." So I am planning this, this four to five person musical that is all about mental health. It's female-driven, all the things that really get me going. And then the Kennedy Center announced that they were going to do "Next to Normal." So our rights got pulled.

[00:07:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh...

[00:07:21] Danielle Guy: I know! And I remember, I will never forget, I was on Instagram and I was just scrolling and I saw the Kennedy Center come up and I was like, "Oh cool. They're announcing what they're doing." I was like, "Awesome. Would love to go see that and that, and oh... oh no. Oh, no." I texted my producer, my executive producer on the board. I was like, "Hey, I don't think we're going to do "Next to Normal." Am I correct in this?" They're like, "Yeah, we're totally not." So our rights got pulled and I didn't know what to do.

[00:08:05] And I sat down with my best friend and my fiance, Matt, Matt Calvert . And we were going through the alphabet and we were coming up with musical proposals that I could write for, and A, B, C, and then we, we narrowed it down and there's this musical called "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I immediately said no, because "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" is kind of like the cursed production of theater, because it's very controversial. It's-- if anyone has seen "The Book of Mormon," it's satire like that, but not as well written. And also the satire doesn't always come across as satire. Some people take it a little too seriously, and I understand why, because of the writing.

[00:09:01]It's a satirical work of the presidency of Andrew Jackson and specifically his removal of the Native Americans from the East and moving them out West. And it's done in a punk rock setting. It's very heavy distortions. It's extremely into, in your face.  This production has been protested by a lot of people because specifically there's one, one number and it called "10 Little Indians." And in the original production, they had a whole bunch of white people dressed up in feathers and garb , and when it came out originally, it was kind of right before all of that really came into view. But especially now it's like, no, we were not going to do that.

[00:09:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:09:55]Danielle Guy: But I created a proposal for it and like five other shows and I did a big old dump for the board and they're like, "That's the one we're going to do." "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" And I remember asking them, I was like, "Are you sure?" And honestly, I think that was a very smart move, especially for what's happening right now. Some people don't know this, President Trump has a portrait of Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office. And Andrew Jackson is one of the most controversial and most xenophobic presidents that we've ever had.

[00:10:28]So that's fun. And specifically for Dominion , their theater company, they are not afraid of making those comments or being controversial. So, wow. I was able to do this, but when I went in, I had this this idea where it's like, of course, we're not going to--we're not going to portray the Native Americans with a whole bunch of white people. We're not going to put head dresses on them. We're going to have none of that. Of course, I was like, we're very much going to keep it as respectful as possible. But fortunately with the cast that I had and how brave they were, what it ended up being was just this powerhouse of social justice.

[00:11:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Hm.

[00:11:14]Danielle Guy: I was very surprised with how young the cast was. Our youngest person was 21, and the dedication that they had to the entire text and they definitely were fearless. I'm sure that a whole bunch of actors, and rightfully so, after the first read through, " Be like, I'm not sure if I can do this". I will never forget the first read through where afterward everyone was dead silent. Like, there is a lot of messed up stuff in that, it's pretty messed up and we're going to lean into it because we kind of have to because of what's happening right now. And I know that a lot of people think, "Oh, art, it's for entertainment. It's, it's fine." It's like, yeah, but also art has to be truthful. And I felt like this was the production that could be very truthful. And by the end, we were going in and we were just like, "We hope people leave. We hope that they're offended that we're making comments," and be like, "This is not okay." And no one did actually, we never had anyone leave, which was surprising to me, considering like the F bomb was dropped every two seconds. But yeah, it's--and there were a lot of times as a director that I feel like I could have held on to my original idea for it, but it wouldn't be as good. It really is letting go and letting your actors and also your team come up with ideas. Like my, my set designer had such a cool idea of making the space into a very, very close setting where the actors were maybe maybe three feet away from the first row.

[00:13:06]My set designer, Amber, she made it super colorful. Like the stage was covered in carpets and there were all different colors and she had tapestries that were different designs, all the walls. And it was just very--when you walked in--it felt like your living room, it was very home-y. It was definitely not what I had in mind. And what I had in mind was like rock concert. I don't mind if there's a pit or, you know, if we raise the stage a little bit, and she was like, "No, no, no, we're gonna make this feel kind of like what we did where it's like in your living room." And so that way you were unable to separate yourself from the action and be like, "Well, this is just a story." It's like, "No, you in it, people are able to look at you. They see if you're pulling out your phone."

[00:13:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh. Yeah.

[00:13:59]Danielle Guy: So yeah, that was very interesting. And that was something I could have been like, "No, I want it to be like that." So glad I did it because it changed everything. And, yeah, it's just one of those things where you need to, to trust other people and their designs and their ideas and just be like, "Cool. If you believe in it, I believe in it."

[00:14:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's powerful. So how, how did audiences react? I mean, obviously it was a difficult thing that you were bringing forth and I love what you said about art needs to be truthful. I absolutely agree with you. but so yeah, I mean, what was, what was the audience reaction and how did you feel at the end? How did your cast feel at the end? I mean, that, that is a huge undertaking.

[00:14:39]Danielle Guy: Yeah, it was mixed responses. So we actually did have a small protest, not at the production, but before on social media, where an individual who did not want to enter a conversation with us, a dialogue of us being like, "Well, this is how we're changing it. This is what we're doing to make sure that we're showing that, 'Hey, this is not funny about the Native Americans. The Native Americans aren't a joke. Who is the joke is Andrew Jackson in this.'" We would have loved to have that conversation, but they just weren't interested in hearing it, so we had a little bit of a protest, but also we anticipated that. And we also had, I had reached out to a colleague of mine from college who is a Cherokee. He lives in Colorado. And we had talked about it long before we were even in rehearsals and coming up with ideas of how to do this musical, but keep it respectful as well and really to get the correct message across.

[00:15:44]And also we had someone who formerly worked at The Smithsonian of  Native Americans come and watch it in rehearsal, just so I can be like, "Hey, if you see anything, because we are doing our best, but I'm sure we've missed something, like, please let us know." I wrote an open letter to audience members about like, "Hey, is this a problematic play?Absolutely. It is. However, this is how we are addressing it and moving forward." So we had put that on social media. It was surprisingly published--we didn't know they were doing this--in the DC Metro Theater Report, which is on Facebook and in print. So that was really cool. We knew that audience members were kind of prepared, even if they didn't know the musical.

[00:16:31] It's like, okay, you're walking into something that you're going to be offended by probably. And so some audience members really got the message and were really into it. And then, and we're like, yes, we see how you were able to show the narrative as truth of, of history and how awful Andrew Jackson is and how that mindset of basically, you know, white supremacy has padded come up again in the name of, nationalism and patriotism.

[00:17:04]And then there were some audience members and I was, I always love talking to them where they're like, "Yes, we understand what you're doing, but we still don't think this musical should ever be done because it's just too offensive." And I, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to art. I don't think that it's ever black and white, your opinion and how you perceive art, is just how you perceive art.

[00:17:31] And it's not a right or wrong thing. It's just your reaction. I say the same thing in my day job. I am a sommelier. When you taste wine, when you try wine, you like it, or you don't. I'm the one who is trained to find the notes and everything, but you know, what, if you're not a professional, your main thing is like, "Do I like it?" And that's how you can go with art too.  Do I like this? Yes? No? Cool. It doesn't have to be any deeper than that. If you want to go deeper--absolutely, I love having those conversations--but if someone comes in and absolutely hated it, you hated it. That's cool. It's not your thing.

[00:18:12] Yeah, and actually to that point, I'm curious, I imagine you had some people that came in that did hate it because they were uncomfortable and they were, they were frustrated because this stuff is difficult to, to take in. And so did you have anybody who wanted to have a conversation about like, I hated this...

[00:18:32] It was super cool. I loved that when someone was like, "I hated it." And I was like, "Cool, I'm not offended. I don't care, but can you tell me why." It's the why that interests me. And we had some really good conversations that came out of it. And one woman who was a little older, I sat down with her. She was related to someone in the cast. A nd she's like, "I just really didn't like it." I was like, "Well, could you explain to me why?" And her whole thing was because there were things that were not factual in the musical--and we can debate artistic license-- but I understand what you're saying. Where she's like, "Especially when you have someone who is as terrible as Andrew Jackson, you don't have to make stuff up to make him more terrible or more likable or what have you. It's like, she definitely wanted it to stick to actual history, and I totally get that. That's totally fine. But it's definitely something I had no power over. I couldn't change the script.

[00:19:36]  Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think that's one of the most powerful things that art can do is start conversations that you might not otherwise have unless you're confronted with something that you A) don't understand, B) don't appreciate, C), don't like. I mean, I think there's a lot of value in the conversations that art can bring because, you're right! I mean, there's--like you said earlier on some level, it's like, do you like it or don't you? But at the same time, I love that you can take that and then ask, well, why? And then you have an intelligent conversation about, you know, what you took from that. I love that.

[00:20:13] Danielle Guy: Yeah, exactly. And also, and this is something that I talked to my, my cast a lot about--where it's like, people are going to dislike this show. Don't be offended, because that is their right. And that also sparked a conversation in the cast where, you know, we're in a time right now where everyone's offended by something, and then you're offended if someone's offended--it's just all a terrible circle. And I was like, "Guys, this is, we're talking about Andrew Jackson, we're talking about America. And one of the most American things we have is the, the right to express your opinion, that you have a voice-- freedom of speech. So it's like, let them have that freedom of speech because we're definitely exercising it with this. And if you want to be an example for other people, when someone looks at you and says, "I hated your show," just ask why and then say, "Thank you ," and move on.

[00:21:10]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that. And actually I think that gives a lot of freedom because, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you're trying to appeal and this goes for even a quote, end quote "non-controversial" show, right? I mean, in the sense that you're going to have people that walk away and they're like, "That was stupid," or "That was bad," you know what I mean? Like, you're just going to have somebody who doesn't like it and, and having the freedom to say, "It's okay." You're going to have our fans who are grateful and like it, and then you're going to have your critics who are like, "Well, I didn't," and having that freedom as an artist to say, "Well, that's not a reflection on me. Honestly, it's the reflection on them in the sense of, back to your fundamental point, they liked it or they didn't, but it's not you. And I think that actually gives a lot of freedom. I love that perspective.

[00:21:54] Danielle Guy: Thank you. I mean, also as artists, it can be difficult because your art is an extension of yourself, so it's hard to differentiate between that. But I think that a way for artists to also protect themselves, is by having that separation. Because, man, it's hard, especially with actors where, when I do workshops for auditions, I'm like, "You're going to get rejected. And you are going to get rejected again and again and again. And it's hard for you to not take that personally, because it is like you offering yourself. But if you want to say sane, you have to be able to look over it, not get over it, but look over it." Or it's like, well, it wasn't this time, but maybe the next. And yeah, just continue going. It's hard. It's a hard world.

[00:22:52]Lindsey Dinneen: I've said in the past--to be an artist is to be brave. And I think, just inherently, when you put yourself out there as an artist or you create something--even if you don't identify as, "Oh, I'm an artist", but you created something--I mean, it's brave. It takes guts to put something out into the world and say, "Here you go." And we'll see.

[00:23:13]Danielle Guy:  I will say like, one of the most terrifying moments of my life was when my mother went and saw the show.

[00:23:18]Lindsey Dinneen: I can imagine.

[00:23:19] Danielle Guy: She actually said it in a very good way where she is like, "I didn't like it, but I saw that it was well done," which is also a thing that I think people need to learn where it's just like, you can not like something, but it doesn't mean that it's trash. Honestly I love getting bad reviews. I just love hearing the other side of things, which maybe is like the most theatrical thing that you can do is because you always have to look at the other side of the coin with the character. But yeah, love, love it. I'm weird.

[00:23:53]Lindsey Dinneen: No, I mean, I'm going to say that is awesome because I think firstly, it's very tough to read reviews where you're like, "What are you talking about?" So kudos to you.

[00:24:02] Danielle Guy: You have to think about what you're going to expel your, your time and energy on. And move on with my life because my life is full of amazing people and I'm doing amazing things and that's all I really want to do with my life. So I'm not going to let a little blip, send me into a spiral.

[00:24:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Good for you. Oh my goodness. To all the artists out there who are afraid of a bad review, just remember Danielle's advice. You can, you can look at it and say, "You know what? I will accept a different opinion." And then you just move on because you got more amazing things to do.

[00:24:37] Danielle Guy: Exactly.

[00:24:38] Lindsey Dinneen: I just have a couple of questions for you if that's okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:24:46] Danielle Guy: Art is expression of truth done a visual way. So where it is taking some form of reality and putting it in a way that can be physicalized, whether it be by, you know, painting or drawing or by moving, or by speaking--just a different way to look at it--that is different from what our normal reality is, which can be quite boring.

[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:25:17]Danielle Guy:  Once again, going into the true thing, just tell the truth. I hear this all the time with actors where they're, where they say, "Oh, acting is my escape." And that's, those typically are the actors that are kind of hard to work with because it's not an escape. A lot of these characters are created out of some sense of reality. And I feel like we do them a dishonor by taking someone's potential life or potential situation and putting it on as a mask to escape the reality in our own. So it's just, you know, doing honor to the text doing honor to what has come before us.

[00:25:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's that's a great. Okay. And my last one--I'll kind of explain a little bit, but it's just totally in your personal opinion-- do you feel that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So exclusive kind of being, so an artist puts something out there and there's not necessarily a lot of explanation behind it--what inspired it? Maybe there's not a title to it. Maybe, you know, you just don't have a lot of context, versus inclusive being, you know, the artist describes the inspiration behind it or what they were feeling when they created it or just to provide a little bit more context of what you as the viewer or the observer might gain, I guess, or experience.

[00:26:49] Danielle Guy: Oh man. My avant garde is showing so hard. I would say exclusive. I'm just one of those people where it's like, just let the art talk. It takes away the magic when you have to go in and explain everything. It's like when you have to explain a joke, that is, like, not funny anymore.  There's this, video on YouTube that came out several years ago--it was all performance art-- where a woman was sitting at a table and you would go up and sit on the other side of the table and she would just look at you for an entire minute. No words at all. She would look; you give you direct eye contact for an entire minute. There was no explanation why. And, she didn't even advertise this as much where it, she had like a handler who's like, "We're doing this thing, please form a line if you'd like to be involved." And apparently the feedback from people--after their minute was done, it had moved them so much, and it meant different things to everyone. And I feel like to explain that moment would have--or her reason behind it-- what have you, what her goal was? I feel like it would have tarnished that very visceral and primal response that people had.  So yeah,  let it be exclusive. Don't let people always know because sometimes artists don't even have an answer. "I don't know why I did this. It just looked cool." I think, yeah, my avant-garde came out real hard there.

[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: It did. But I love asking people that question because we get very different responses, and like art, it's subjective. And so I love it and I love the reasoning behind it . So, do you have, I know this is kind of an odd time, but do you have any upcoming projects or anything that you're working towards?

[00:28:46] Danielle Guy: Yeah, so, my main production that's coming up, is my wedding in October. So I'm taking a little bit of a break, and then this time next year, I will be directing "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress," which is a wonderful play. I love it so much. And it's female centered and about life and how we, we think we know our dearest friends, but then, you know, maybe you're a bridesmaid in their wedding and you learned that, you know, nothing about them at all. So yeah, that's my next project that I have on the books.

[00:29:23]Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. And if anyone wants to get in touch with you or follow your artistic journey, do you have any kind of outlet for that? Or even if they wanted to come see that, is there, you know, a way that they can kind of keep in touch?

[00:29:37] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So usually I do announce things on my website, which is danielledirects.com. And that's also a link where if you want to get in touch with me, or ask any questions, there will be, like a little conversation box that will send an email to me.

[00:29:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. How fancy.

[00:29:58] Danielle Guy: I know.

[00:29:59]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, thank you so very much for just being a present here and thank you for being a guest; I really appreciate it. And I'm a firm believer that when you put art out into the world, it makes it a better place. And so I just want to thank you personally for, you know, continuing your passion ever since you were eight. But thank you for continuing to produce art and be brave as an artist. And, I just, I know the world is a better place because of it.  

[00:30:30] Danielle Guy: Thank you, and thank you so much for asking me to be a part of this. This was so great. Thank you for all that you're doing, especially during crazy times like this and all your passion and art.  I have to brag about you. I've been a fan of you since I was five, so...

[00:30:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Awww! Aww, you're sweet. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you again and thank you to everyone who has listened to this, and I hope you feel as inspired as I do. And I just wanted to say that we really appreciate your shares and comments. And we will catch you next time.

[00:31:10] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

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