Episode 011 - Heidi Loubser

In this episode, I welcome Heidi Loubser! Heidi is a professional dancer and currently in school to earn her degree in math. She brings a unique perspective to art with her scientifically-inclined mind, and shares about the YouTube video that completely changed her dance training trajectory.

 

Connect with Heidi Loubser: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XhnMolqfEN56S8wJLGspw

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Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

 

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 11 - Heidi Loubser

 

Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello! Welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to be sharing more art with you today. And I'm very privileged to have an absolutely wonderful person as my guest today. Her name is Heidi Loubser and she is a beautiful artist in many capacities, and I'm excited to hear more about all the different things that she does, but I know that she is an accomplished dancer and has been training, goodness, probably your whole life. So I'm sure I'll get to hear about that, but thank you so much, Heidi, for being on the show today.

[00:00:45]Heidi Loubser: Yes. I'm excited.

[00:00:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And let's just go ahead and hear a little bit from you about who you are or your background, kind of whatever you want to share.

[00:00:55]Heidi Loubser: Sure. So my name is Heidi, as she said, and I'm 21 years old. I was born in  Pretoria, South Africa, and I lived there until I was eight years old. So that definitely shaped my early life. And then I've lived in the US since then. I grew up with my mother and both of my two older sisters dancing. So that was just always normal being at the ballet studio, did the "Nutcracker" every year, and just got more into it. As I got older, I decided to move more into contemporary and modern dance and that really caused me to look other places 'cause the studio I was training at was wonderful, but didn't offer especially any modern. So that's how I ended up in Kansas City at a program called Storling's Artist Development Program, trained there for two years.

[00:01:46] And that was really a great fit for me. I looked at college programs, but ADP was cheaper and a shorter time commitment and had more time in the studio, which is really what I wanted. I've also been in college sort of on and off part-time, full-time online in person, community colleges, all different combinations. And I studied math. I was studying physics and I've finally decided on math. So I have one year left of studying math and I dance with a company in town called Storling, and I'll be doing that again which I really love. So yeah, I think that's, that's pretty much me. I have the science brain and the art brain and I enjoy using them both.

[00:02:34]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So you only have one year left. Oh, that's so exciting. I kind of remember, you know, when it was like a little more into the weeds for a while, and I know that's--at least now you can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel there.

[00:02:48] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. And the classes are getting harder. So I'm--but I know that there's a finish line.

[00:02:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Do you have plans for that degree yet? I mean, I know plans are so wonky these days, but in theory, do you have any thoughts about what you want to do?

[00:03:09] Heidi Loubser: Right. So that's such a great question that has gone through so many transitions in my mind. Getting a college degree has always been an expectation in my family. It's also always been a privilege, definitely, that it has been possible in my family that I could pursue a degree. So that was kind of something that I just always knew: I'm getting a college degree. So the transitions have been in what my major would be. And then as I've progressed in dance and realized really just a few years ago that it was actually something I could do professionally, which I didn't know for a really long time, I kind of thought, "Oh, well, maybe I am not going to do whatever my major field is right away. So my degree most recently was actually in math, secondary education, so to teach in a high school, and I really would like to pursue performance, and other aspects of dance now, especially, as everyone says, while you're younger, take the time to do the dancing.

[00:04:10]And then, I mean, my interest in general long-term is definitely in education. I teach dance currently, which I really love and want to continue to do and to invest in dance education. So I've always joked that if I could, you know, be a professor at a university and teach in both the math, science, and dance departments.  That, that would sort of be my dream that would require about three master's degrees. So I don't think that's what we're actually going to do, but okay, I don't know. Being a professor has always been of some interest. I also, I've grown more and more interested in dance science. A lot of people suggested sort of physical therapy and things like that to me.

[00:04:51] And I'm really not interested in that. I remember I recently had a conversation with someone who's getting their masters in dance science and that was really interesting to me because I think especially as an educator, there's just a lot of practices I see in the classroom that I'm going, "Why are we still doing this?" You know, when we have the science to tell us what's helpful and what's not helpful. And then also there are just some standards that I see in the dance world that I don't think are healthy.  There's a crazy push for flexibility and just things like that.

[00:05:22] So yeah, I can sort of imagine myself going into dance science, but I'm a people person. So I don't know that I want to live my life in a laboratory, but that's the only way I really see them connecting. I think otherwise it's more just the, the logic part of it, I think, you know, and the critical thinking aspect. I think that's just how I teach dance is from a very analytical perspective. This is, you know, the precise way you need to do this step to do it correctly. And I think about it in the same way that I think about math, rather than I'm trying to make this step look pretty or something like that.

[00:06:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:06:02]Heidi Loubser: The plans are just, they're up in the air, obviously.

[00:06:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course, of course. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I think, I think what's interesting is you bring a different approach to both your own performing and your teaching style. And I think that that's really unique and great, and I love--I think your approach is very in general, problem-solving, which I like, because I think that makes it a little more rich than simply--much more rich, to kind of have that approach rather than just like, "Hey, it's wrong. It needs to be fixed." But like "How?" because that's always a difficult thing.

[00:06:39] Heidi Loubser: And how much of that is changeable? I mean, especially in dance, you're working with the physical body, so there's a huge amount of like, how much are we trying to induce a feeling or an experience for the audience, and how much is that tied to aesthetically what you can produce? Because there's certainly a correlation, you know? I mean, that's why we have techniques that try to develop dancers that can produce certain kinds of positions and shapes and movements, but on the other hand, is that ultimately what's giving the audience, you know, the experience that they're having? I mean, there's so much room for, for things like artistry and that to contribute. So yeah, definitely problem solving. How can we share what we want to with the audience?

[00:07:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah, I love it. Well, I know you have at least one story to share with us, so I would love to hear what you have to say.

[00:07:35] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. So when I first read your post asking for encounters with art, this is the one that immediately came to mind. And I think it was the first one because it was both--it was the first in a lot of areas, I guess, is the best way to put it. So there is a company in Houston, Texas called Ad Deum company, run by Randall Flynn, and they're a company that their vision really centers on the intersection of dance and Christian faith. They really strive to authentically share their faith and hope, love, joy, peace--these good things from the Lord--with their audience through their movement.

[00:08:16] So I actually first discovered them on the wonderful platform of YouTube,  and what's amazing about Randy, about the director, is he's really put up a lot of their work on YouTube. So there are hundreds of videos that you can go watch. And especially in high school, when I was just trying to figure out what I thought about dance. And I was in a church, in a Christian school, and a Christian home, and really wondered, you know, what does dance look like in the context of my faith? And I found these YouTube videos and I started watching them and I was really blown away.

[00:08:53] First of all, I had never really seen modern dance before, classical modern dance. And I just loved the movement, totally fell in love. So it was the first in that area, but then also they weren't necessarily using Christian songs or even songs with lyrics. They were using instrumental music. The piece I'm going to speak about was a song that's been used in tons of different contexts called, "This Bitter Earth."

[00:09:18] And, I just stumbled across this video one day called, "This Bitter Earth," and I watched, and I was totally engaged. For one, I don't think I've ever been that engaged watching, especially a video with dance. It's so much better live, but I was really captivated, and basically the piece is just showing the tension between, you know, hope, but so many things to pull you away from hope in the world. At least that's really what I've experienced in the piece. And at the end of the piece, you know, there's two people that are circling in the middle and then there's people running around on the outside and it gets faster and there's more movement on the outside.

[00:09:56]And at the very end, these two people are looking away from each other. It's maybe a six minute piece and they just grab hands and they look at each other and it was really powerful for me. And I know that sounds super cheesy. There are so many pieces where it's like the look, the dramatic moment. But I, I think it really worked because it wasn't, it wasn't over done. They weren't necessarily trying to make a big dramatic moment. It was just sincere, sincere human connection of like, it's going to be okay. You know, there are a lot of troubles in this world, but like hope really is a real thing.

[00:10:35] And then that same year, actually, I loved this company so much. And I, as I said, was just in a season of exploration and in the dance world. I took a Greyhound bus to Houston, stayed in a hostel and went to this company spring intensive, and they actually performed that piece. It's choreographed by Steve Rooks in their studio. They did a little in-studio showing, which was really special for me to see it live. And I've had the opportunity to see it multiple times since then. It's been performed other places, but it was just very, very touching in terms of-- you know, you're not giving me a message and you're not saying words, but I'm really experiencing the virtue of hope is really, I think the best way I can put it.

[00:11:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, it sounds like that kind of helped you--well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, this is just sort of something that I kind of got from it-- it sounds like it really kind of helped you, realize maybe a little bit more of, of how your faith and dance could intersect.

[00:11:36]Heidi Loubser: Yes. It's not necessarily, it has to look like this, but just, this is an option and I don't think it was an option I had seen or experienced before. Not that you can't do it a different way. Not that you always need to intentionally intersect them, but just this is possible and this can be really powerful. So it was such high quality dancing. And I think that was also huge, you know, because I had seen Ballet Magnificat, which is a beautiful company. They do really amazing work, but as I said, I had never seen really modern dance. And so I think it was just that like, wow, it is an option to do modern dance and to share really good and beautiful and powerful things. And to not have to use words or to be direct, you can truly use the art form of dance. It was just so cool to, like, see that option.

[00:12:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And from that, sort of launching point for you, how did that kind of change your trajectory as far as--I mean, I know you mentioned, you know, you'd grown up more in ballet and then were trying to explore more contemporary modern-- is that what pivoted you towards, towards that? Or how did that then impact the rest of your, your journey?

[00:12:53] Heidi Loubser: Hm. So I actually, I had begun exploring contemporary modern before, and I actually, I'm realizing I wasn't quite truthful earlier. I saw that piece maybe two years before I went to Houston. I wrote a paper my senior year of high school. I was in a course called Communication and Culture. And I wrote a research paper abou, Christianity and art, and what it meant to be a, quote unquote, Christian artist. And I talked about this specific piece in my paper. So I actually started exploring contemporary modern because I was having issues in my Achilles tendon from doing a lot of pointe work.

[00:13:31] And so that was kind of the point. So it wasn't necessarily about it being more serious or anything to do with integrating my faith. I think the greatest thing about going to Houston was I met several people from Kansas City when I went to that intensive. And they're actually how I found out about the opportunities in Kansas City. So that was really the biggest influence, but for sure, I mean, it's influenced the work that I create or even--yeah, last  Christmas, I was performing at a performance called "Illuminate the Arts" by Arts Inspired Network. And I decided to not fully choreograph my work, but just to pick a song, sort of pick a theme, come up with a few phrases, and I felt free to improvise it.

[00:14:19]And that was, that was really fun. And sort of maybe an example of how I've integrated those sorts of things. I first saw it at Ad Deum. I think it's still in progress. I have a lot to learn. So maybe in about a decade, I'll have some more answers for you. Still figuring it out. But yeah, that initial vision I think is still there.

[00:14:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So do you foresee yourself continuing to pursue more along the avenues of modern and contemporary rather than more classical movement? Or are you kind of open or?

[00:14:57] Heidi Loubser: You know? I'm open. I think there are so many different factors when it comes to what you form. There's the movement style. There's the content, you know, what are you sharing through the movement? There's all the logistical implications of the time, commitment, et cetera. I think for me, what's really come out on top of the priority is that we truly care for the audience and that we're trying to give them something, and that I'm not just on stage, that I can have a good time.

[00:15:32]I think that's really--that generosity, I think, is the best word--has really come out on top for me is the main thing that I care about. So I think when I see that somewhere, then I ask questions about the movement or about the specific storylines that they're telling, et cetera. Yeah, I would love to do more modern and to learn more techniques. I'm not totally sure where I'm headed. Obviously as an educator, always wanting to get more professional development, to have more to share with my students.

[00:16:03] So there's definitely a draw there to study more modern. But I think, I think the biggest thing really is just, are we trying to offer something good and true to our audience? And if that's true, then I'm--I don't know--I'm willing to try something new. I'm willing to learn a new style if I feel like that is happening.

[00:16:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's a good kind of baseline standard to have. And so then, then it's easier to kind of navigate your opportunities. If it meets that standard, great, then maybe that's something to explore, and if it doesn't, yeah well, it's not for you. Yeah, I think that's, that's wonderful to have that kind of a clear, I dunno, set of guidelines that are things to kind of ponder.  Well, I have a few questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.

[00:16:48] Heidi Loubser: Yes, I'd love to hear them.

[00:16:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. All right. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?

[00:16:58]Heidi Loubser: Oh, gosh, we're jumping right in. Oh!

[00:17:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yes.

[00:17:03]Heidi Loubser: Well, I'll, I'll just start off by saying, I honestly don't completely know. I feel like the word is so it's thrown around so much that it-- I find myself in a conversation, I'm responding to how that person is defining it. Do you know what I mean? As long as we can commonly define in this conversation where this is what we're talking about, then that helps me.

[00:17:29]I think I maybe have a classical definition of visual art, performing art, you know?  I do think there's some amount of emotional tie to it.  I mean, even if I go out and look at the sunset, I think that can be, I guess, an artistic experience. I guess to me, it also really depends why we need to define it. So for example, if we're trying to define it for a grant process, you know, to decide who can apply, that's really different than trying to define it for the sake of my worldview .

[00:18:03] I tend to sort of go, okay, what category, what sphere of life are we in? And what is it applied to in this situation? Because if we're in school and we're talking about needing to give kids art classes, you know, as opposed to all the classes they already have, we're probably talking about a specific arts skill, such as drawing, singing, you know, playing an instrument. Even though the general idea of being creative, which I think some people would say, well, art is basically creativity. Well, I promise you, you need creativity in math. I mean, the kind of math classes I'm in there is no formula to find the answer anymore. It's literally, here's your differential equation. You need to guess the solution.  You know, if you see artists' creativity, well, that's very artistic. You need a lot of creativity. So, yeah, so that's why in my mind, that's too broad. I mean, everything has an element of art in it then.

[00:18:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, and, and, like art, you know, it's subjective. Everyone has a different kind of opinion on that. But yeah, so you're saying like, it depends. So you would define art in different contexts. So like, it depends on the context that, that the conversation is around how you would necessarily define art. Is that correct?

[00:19:14] Heidi Loubser: I think so. I think if I'm trying to one sentence to it, I mean, art is the act of creating . You know, we take one resource and we transform it into another. We take a body and we mold it to do certain things on stage. We take clay and we turn it into a sculpture. So maybe, yeah, the act of creating, if I had to boil it down to a phrase, but if you ask me in a year, I'm probably going to have a different answer.

[00:19:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I've not heard it said like that before, and I think that that brings up a very good point of the context does matter.  Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:19:50] Heidi Loubser: So, okay. Maybe this isn't a role but I think I would say--to be telling, or, you know, in dance or other forms we're not telling, but to be sharing the truth. I think of artists in some ways is a huge part of like the global marketing team. I mean, if you think about what people's opinions or worldviews or just what they believe about it, any number of things, art is often a huge part of, of how they got there. You know, we're not creating those ideas obviously, but I think artists are usually the ones expressing them or propagating them or suggesting that this is closer to what it should be, what we should be fighting for.

[00:20:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Heidi Loubser: Or even if it's, as artists are bringing joy and we're just bringing some humor and laughter and, and entertainment, you know, which is totally real as well, that's suggesting that that's valuable in life, right? So in my mind, there's a lot of different things you could be expressing with art, but it's the most important thing for me is just that what you're expressing is, is true. It lines up with reality, which doesn't mean that it's not fictional. I mean, obviously you could do a play about a fictional story, but you're, you're sharing truth through that. Not that it's factually correct, but you're, you're promoting and you're encouraging things in life that are really important and matter.

[00:21:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think truth is really important in art.  Good answer. Okay. My final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit-- do you think, and just again, in your own opinion--that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And here's what I mean by that. So with exclusive, we're talking about an artist putting their work out into the world and not necessarily providing any particular context behind it so that the audience can take from it just what they want? Versus inclusive kind of referring to an artist that, you know, includes the program notes or has a description, or essentially you understand what the artist's intention was behind the piece, regardless of what you draw from it.

[00:22:07]Heidi Loubser: I've had a number of conversations about this topic, especially with my parents actually, because they very much, they always want more information. They always want to know what the artist intended. They're frustrated when they don't understand, which has been really helpful for me actually, especially from my father, because he's not a dancer. And so to go, okay, someone on the outside is looking for more information. If I have to choose one, I think I'm going to say inclusive. I, I think the way that I prefer it to happen is that the information is there, it's available, but it's not forced on the audience. You know? So I think, for example, putting it in a program note is a really great way to do that.

[00:22:51] The program is free at the door. They can read it if they want to. What I often choose to do personally is to read it afterwards. You know, I want that information, but I like to sort of just watch the piece for itself. If we're talking about dance first and then to hear what they had to say, but I also am trying to become more sensitive to the idea that there are a lot of people that feel totally lost. They feel stupid that they don't understand art. And I think, you know, if you teach, if you expect someone to read English, I mean, we taught them the letters, right? We taught them what each word means. You don't expect someone to pick up an English book and understand it if they don't know English.

[00:23:30] And I think in some ways, you know, like dancers, sculpture painting can be a whole other language. Oh, well the color red symbolizes this and the color blue symbolizes that and giving them that information is helping them to, quote unquote, "read" the painting. So, yeah, I would say yes, inclusive, but I also know that there are some artists who--they're specifically creating work for the intention of having other people interpret it through their experiences. So almost like therapy. They really, they don't want people to know their backstory. They want people to process their own experiences. And I think that can be helpful. I mean, I often think maybe if they would say that more clearly that people could walk away with more--if they know, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do in this scenario.

[00:24:19] Because I think sometimes people don't know that they're supposed to do that, or even that they're invited to do that. And so they're just scared. But yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say inclusive 'cause even as a dancer, as someone who's familiar with this world from the inside, there are still times when I wish I had more information. And so it's sort of like, if I wish that, then surely people who don't know this language at all, who've never been in a studio are going to want some level of context.

[00:24:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Love it.

[00:24:51] Heidi Loubser: These are great questions. Wow.

[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It, you know, and it's so interesting because it brings up a lot of interesting points and people have, have shared very different opinions on it. And I think that's important too, to have those conversations about sort of even just why you believe what you believe. Well, thank you so much again, Heidi. I really appreciate you sharing your stories and your insights. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I am a firm believer that when you do create and, and, you know--kind of referring back to what you were talking about earlier--when you're generous with your art and your heart and soul really come through with-- whether you're dancing or writing or solving problems when you're giving-- there's, there's so much power and beauty that comes from that. And I truly believe it makes the world more beautiful place. And so I just want to say thank you for sharing. Well, thank you so much again to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you feel as inspired as I do right now, I hope that you'll share with a friend and continue to share art with the world in that way. And I just want to say thank you, and we will catch you next time.

[00:26:07] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:26:18] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills and emotional intelligence. For people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products, courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wanna-be artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.