Episode 046 - Jeffrey Holst

In today's episode, I welcome Jeffrey Holst! Jeff is a life coach for all creative types, and thrives on helping artists monetize their art to create a sustainable living. In this episode, he shares about a journey to find himself through art that took him around the world and back again. (Fun fact: the cover image of this episode is the logo of the Last Life Ever podcast!)

 

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Episode 46 - Jeffrey Holst

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12]Roman:  All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful. 

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello. And welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am very excited to have as my guest today, Jeffrey Holst. He's a real estate investor, a recovering attorney, and a podcaster. And I just can't wait to hear all about your background, Jeffrey, and all the different stories that you have to share. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

[00:00:58] Jeffrey Holst: No, no problem, Lindsey. I appreciate you having me on. It's, it's exciting to be here. So I, I appreciate that.

[00:01:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I do definitely have to ask about your background, especially because recovering attorney is part of it. So I would love to hear a little bit about, you know, just your own journey and maybe how you became a podcaster because that's, that is an art form in and of itself too.

[00:01:23] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah, no, you know, I don't always think of it as art, but I do two different shows and it is, it's a lot of work. And then there requires us to think very carefully about how we're presenting everything. So it does seem like art in a lot of ways. I don't think it's significantly different than than any kind of performance- based art. But yeah, so I practice law. I, I mean, I, I started started practicing law in 2007 and I did it because I wanted to make money. I didn't do it because I loved it. And that's why I'm a recovering attorney. Now I recognized that, you know, you need to do things that you love and enjoy with your life. And so that's how I got out of law, but there's a, sort of a long story about how I ended up where I'm at that I'm happy to share with you, if you have the time for that. So.

[00:02:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Yeah.

[00:02:09] Jeffrey Holst: So the short version of the long story --how's that --is that I, I was going to community college. I was in my third year of a two-year program because I really had no idea what I wanted to do. And, yeah, I was sitting in this, a history class and they were talking about the Renaissance and they were talking about Michelangelo in particular and I remember this so clearly too. It's amazing how impactful this one event was the professor was talking about this Michelangelo sculpture, the Moses, that was supposed to be the centerpiece to Pope Julian the Second's tomb and Michelangelo was commissioned by the Vatican to produce this marble sculpture. And, and they, when he finished it, they were having this unveiling and the Pope was there and, you know, all sorts of dignitaries are there and they pull the sheet off of it or whatever, and he's kind of down on his haunches and he just stares at it and he doesn't say anything. Just awkward silence. And everyone's looking at him and looking at the sculpture.

[00:03:08] And finally one of his students is like, "You know, you have to say something," and he takes a chisel and he throws it full force at the sculpture. And he says a single word "Move." Because he was so passionate about this sculpture that he thought it would literally get up and move. It's just a chunk of rock, right? But I mean, at the same time it was, it's incredible. The sculpture-- there are parts in the marble where the robe of Moses is so thin that you can shine a light through it. I mean, it's just, I mean, it's incredible sculpture. And I would argue probably the best of all of Michelangelo's sculptures, which is saying something because he has quite a few sculptures that are considered the best in the world, right? The David and the Dying Slave-- those are all amazing sculptures, but, but Moses to me, it's something extra and you have to remember to like,  to kind of lose your mind in front of the Pope, back in the Renaissance, that's like-- there's no one today alive, you know, you could say the President of the United States or something, but there's no one as important as the Pope was in the Renaissance. 'Cause there was like a combination of world leader, spiritual leader, emperor, you know, I mean basically completely in control of everything going on. So until like, freak out in front of the Pope is like crazy.

[00:04:25] And I was sitting there in this class, listening to this story, thinking there is nothing in my life that I'm that passionate about, that I would like throw a chisel and scream in front of the President. And I just kind of went, I got to figure this out. Like I need to do something better, more interesting. I just need to solve this. So I, I mean, it was the second semester of my third year and I didn't really need to keep going to community college because I had plenty of credits. So I just kind of went, yeah, I'm going to take a year off and I'm going to go to Europe and I'm going to figure this stuff out. And so I took my income tax refund, which was about $3,000 and I called up 1-800-PRICELINE. This is before the internet version of Priceline. And I got a plane ticket to London for like $300. And, and I, and the most they would give you at that time on Priceline was a 30- day return ticket. So I just, "Well, I'm going to go for 30 days to London."

[00:05:18] And I knew that the Moses was in Rome and my main purpose was to see that, but I wanted to make it like a quest. Like I find myself, you know, I don't know. I, since I was a young kid, right. I was 21. I don't know. I thought I was, that these grand plans of, of you know, traveling around the world and discovering like this, you know, great secret. It was almost like an Indiana Jones type thing for me. I'm going to go explore the world. And I did, and I had a great time. I mean, I spent about two and a half weeks between England and France and Spain, and then finally made my way over to Italy and I went to Rome. Oh, I saw the Coliseum. And then I climbed this little hill up behind the Coliseum to this church called the San Pedro in Vincoli or something like that. It, it basically St. Peter in Chains and you walk into this church and it's a small church and it was under construction at the time that I was there. They were recently cleaning the facade or something. And so there's scaffolding up in front of it. So it wasn't very impressive from the outside.

[00:06:16] And you walk in there and there's this altar in the middle of the entry almost that's got this box in it and the inside the box or some chains that are supposedly the, the chains that, that St. Peter was wearing at the time that he was released from, from jail, by the angels. And so that's what the church has dedicated to. And I'm looking around this church and it's a pretty small. And I don't see this sculpture anywhere. And this is like way before smartphones. And like my guidebook said it was there and I'm like, "Where's this thing, you know, I'm looking for it." And I'm walking around and I see in the corner of this, like shadowy, like dark corner of the church, that there's something that might be the sculpture. And I'm like, "Well, this is going to be really disappointing 'cause I can't even see it." And I'm thinking all the construction's blocking the light or something and I go over there and there's a little box and you drop-- at the time it was like a thousand Lira coin-- I'm sure it's like euros or something now, but you dropped Lira coin in this box.

[00:07:09] And then it turns on the light to light up the sculpture. So it's like an old- school box. It's like chunk chunk. And then it's like, you know, like it's like a scene from a movie and I'm like, "This is the moment. Right? This is the point when I'm going to solve everything." Cause remember, I'd say that's the whole reason I'm in Europe. I'm wondering, I've never been out of the US before, except for, I went to Canada a few times as a child. But I'd never been to Europe. I'd never been in a place where they didn't speak English. Here I am in Rome, by myself you know, with a backpack on staring at this thing, that's going to solve everything for me. And I was like, eh, I can't really, I was looking at the Moses and I was like, it's impressive, but I still don't know what I want to do. So I walked outside and I sat down on the front steps of this church and I was looking down at the Coliseum and I thought, "I like seeing old stuff. I like seeing art."

[00:08:02] I'm just going to go make some money. And that's how I decided to become a lawyer. I want to go. My dad was a lawyer and he, he made good money. So I went, I "I'm going to go be a lawyer and I'll make good money and I can travel the world and look at art and old things." So I made a little list in my head-- the pyramids, Machu Picchu in Peru. Oh, Petra in Jordan. You know, all these ancient sites that I wanted to see, there's a few other things on the list, but I mean, I made this list  and then I did. I just wanted to, I went to law school and, you know, I got married and I took my wife back to Paris and Rome, and we went to the Louvre and we went and saw the Moses again. I was still impressed by it, but still didn't feel like it solved my, you know, my life's purpose question, this like, big grand thing. And my life was okay. I mean, it was fine, was it was. It wasn't bad, but I made good money, started practicing law, started my own law firm. Went to Egypt. I went to Petra and Jordan and finally went down to Peru, to Machu Picchu.

[00:08:56] And that's an amazing place. The, the ancient Incan city on top of a mountain. I mean, that's art in and of itself. Like some of these archeological sites are some of the most amazing art. I mean, if you go to Egypt and see, you know, hieroglyphics and painted tombs and giant pyramids, I mean, that stuff is just --it's mind- blowing the impact that that stuff can have on you. But I went and saw this Machu Picchu, and I was like, "Wow." And I realized when I was sitting there looking down at it, right around sunrise, looking down from the top of the mountain to the city. And I was thinking, "I just finished my bucket list. Sorry, I just, I'm done now. What do I do?" Right? Like I'd made this list 10 years prior when I was in Rome the first time. And I I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I climbed off the mountain and I checked my voicemail. And this attorney that worked for me quit via voicemail, said he was giving the two weeks' notice and I only had one other attorney myself and him.

[00:09:52] And I thought, "Well, I'll deal with that when I get home." And when I got home, I was diagnosed with leukemia. And I wasn't able to go back to work and yeah, ended up bankrupt. And I was like, "Man, life's super short and I've done a lot of cool stuff, but I still don't have any idea what I want to do with my life." And I figured right then and there, if I survived, I needed to figure out a way to make sure, well, two things: one, that money would keep coming in, even after I was unable to work because I didn't know if I'd be able to go back to work or whatever. So that's how I got into it real estate. And, you know, in retrospect that, you know, getting sick was probably the, the greatest thing that ever what happened to me because it got me to quit practicing law. It got me to become a recovering attorney and it got me to find that real person passion and the real passion for me is just helping people live the best possible version of their life. And so that's what I do now.

[00:10:48] You know, I'm a full-time real estate investor. I'm fortunate that seven years after filing bankruptcy, I was able to quit my job and not have to work anymore. Some of that was just really good timing, right? I got sick in 2008. I got bankrupt in 2010 and I started real estate investing in 2011 at the bottom of the market. People who follow the real estate market know it's up a lot since then. So I've been very lucky in that regard. But we've also, you know, put in a lot of work and we spent a lot of time building a portfolio that that takes care of our daily needs and, and it's, it's pretty amazing actually.

[00:11:22] Lindsey Dinneen: So. Wow, what a story. I love that. And I also was just really chuckling to myself about the expectation that maybe seeing the Moses would be this like transformative. I know all the secrets to the universe now. I love that.

[00:11:39] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah. I mean, that's really how it felt. And when I went back to see it later, I actually appreciated it much more because it didn't have as much pressure on it, right? It's not fair to any sculpture or any piece of art or really any show or any, anything to assume it's going to change everything. If you think that going into something, you're going to be disappointed. Your show is amazing as you know, but if someone just goes into your show and goes, "Hey, if I listened to this episode with Jeff Holst, my whole life's going to change." They're not going to be, they're going to be disappointed. I know this for sure. On the other hand, if you go into stuff and you just appreciate it for what it is, you can really get a lot of benefit from stuff. And then that's the thing about art. I mean for me, like some of the things that I've seen in the world-- the Nazca Lines are that. I didn't have any pre-exposure to them.

[00:12:28] I really didn't know much about them. I just write about them and thought it sounded cool. Then Nazca Lines are giant petroglyphs. They're, you know, rock carvings that are so large that you can only see them from the air. And they are thousands of years old. They make no sense. Like who makes rock carving so you can only see it from the air 5,000 years ago? I mean, why would you make that? Like, what would be the point of making it right since you can't even identify them from the ground and they're clearly manmade, they're like hummingbirds and spiders, and there's a guy that looks like an astronaut, which is really curious, right? Like, it's like, why? Like, like what are they doing? Like, this is like a little guy with like two legs, two arms and a helmet on. This makes sense. So, but, but seeing that. That was unbelief. I mean, it's just, it's, it can change your whole perspective. It's like, well, what's going on there. And, and I felt that way, honestly, about some of the stuff.

[00:13:22] It's weird what stuff impacts you. You know, there's things like, you know, the, the Mona Lisa it's, it's cool to see because it's like, you know, it's the Mona Lisa, but, but it didn't like change my life, but then, you know, there's other times I've seen stuff that I wasn't expecting at all, like stuff that I didn't even think I would love. And I'd be like, "Whoa, this is amazing." And sometimes it's, you know, famous artists. Sometimes it's not. I mean, Salvador Dali really did that for me. I went to the Salvador Dali Museum in St. Petersburg, Florida a few years ago. And I always was like, "Well, he's okay. I mean, it's not really my style, but now I'm like, I love Salvador Dali. After going there, I even went out and bought myself a Salvador Dali, you know, signed limited edition. 'Cause I was like, I just know I got to have this in my life."

[00:14:07]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, and then I'd love that your approach of going in with an open mind and just letting the experience be what it is for you instead of coming at it with a preconceived idea of what it should be or what it could be, and then maybe, you know, setting yourself up for disappointment. And that makes complete sense to me. And I love, I love that open-minded approach. Yeah. And just I'm sure, just time has contributed to that time and wisdom, but yeah, that's, that's great. Well, first of all, you were such an overcomer and your story is very inspiring. So thank you for sharing that with us down to the, all the, the details. I really appreciate that. And I also was curious, because I know you obviously do the real estate investing, which is fantastic, but then you're also a podcaster and you have two shows. I would love if you'd share a little bit about maybe how those came about and maybe what they're about too.

[00:15:01] Jeffrey Holst: Sure. So they're completely different. The first show that I'd started a couple of years ago, it's called Old- Fashioned Real Estate. And what, what happened is we decided we were going to start raising some money from individuals to buy bigger deals. And we thought, well, if we're talking to people about raising money, it would be cool if they Googled us, they would find us talking about real estate. So we just made a show on YouTube and we didn't know what we were doing.  And the first couple of episodes are just recorded with my cell phone on a box, you know. Like it's just, you know, we've improved it over the years, but show is kind of a cheeky in a way, because what we do is we drink bourbon old- fashioned. So we just get drunk and talk about real estate investing. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. We've really enjoyed that. And we've gotten some reasonable traction. I mean, it's not something that's going to ever make us super famous, but it's opened up a lot of opportunities for me, which is one of the best parts about podcasting is the people you meet. You know, I've interviewed people on there and most of the time we don't even interview people. That's actually just myself and my partner talking about real estate because we like to do it live and in person. But after coronavirus happened, we started doing more interview shows, 'cause you know, we couldn't go out and like, hang out together for awhile.

[00:16:15] And and so we just, we just were like, "Well, I guess we're gonna, you know, do some zoom stuff or whatever." And we started doing that and and it's, it's been really amazing that people that we've gotten on the show and people we've met that are just do really cool and interesting things in that field. And then also like when I was able to go out and network and stuff, it was just really great. Like people, you know, it gives, it sets you apart a little bit having a show. So when you meet someone and they're like, "Oh, you're the person with the show." And then they start watching your show and then they feel like they know you and they really do kind of get to know you, 'cause there's a lot of this media is very personality based. It's a lot of it is, you know, whether you like the person that you're listening to or not. If you don't like them, then you're not going to watch them, listen to their show or watch their show. And so that's the first show.

[00:16:59] The second show came a year or so later, and it's called Last Life Ever. And this is a by-product of me getting leukemia. Really. It's about recognizing that, you know, life is short, even if you don't get leukemia. I mean, I thought I was going to die for the first month or so. I expected not to live more than three or four months. And when you have that kind of perspective shift, it causes you to think, you know, I don't really like practicing law. I need to do something else, right? Well, it would have been very easy if I hadn't gotten sick to still be an attorney now, make decent money. Like it wasn't that bad. I didn't hate it. In fact, I was pretty happy, but I didn't have any, any fulfillment in my life. And when I started getting into real estate and the freedom that that bought me when I quit working in 2017, I kind of went, "You know, this is a pretty good life."

[00:17:50] Like I need to be doing something to help people get to the situation where they can choose how they, they want to spend their time. It's not about not working because I still work. I do things like podcasting and real estate investing and all that. But I started the real estate show to help people be able to real estate invest in and after a while, I started to realize that there's more to life than just being a real estate investor, it turns out, and I wanted to help people have bigger dreams and do things that that would benefit them and live really what we always say is, live the best possible version of their lives. Recognizing that it is their last life ever, that they're only get this one chance, you know, you gotta make someday today because if you don't someday may never come.

[00:18:35] And so we do that kind of stuff and we interview people that are during interesting and fun things.  We interviewed people like Broadway musicians and sometimes artists or art gallery owners. But, but also people-- like we interviewed a reality television star who won season two of the, of "Alone," where he spent 62 days living by himself in the wilderness. And, and, and outlasted the rest of the people that were in different places in the wilderness, you know, I'm just like crazy stuff like that. And then what these people do and how their mindset is. I mean, we've interviewed like TJ Miller the comedian and just talk to him about you know, he does and how he got into it and how he thinks. And I mean, that kind of stuff. It's like, you start to recognize that, you know, people doing these extraordinary things, whatever they are, but they're just people like the rest of us. And if we can help people be inspired by that, that's, that's really the goal of the show. And, and, you know, there's an element of charity. We have a foundation that we started and there is an element of, you know, training and stuff like that. But, but at its core, it's really just about the mindset of, of, of going for your personal dreams, whatever those are.

[00:19:43]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. That's so cool. I can't wait to subscribe and start listening to that because I think that's so important. And, yeah, what cool people that you've gotten to talk to! I really think that's awesome.

[00:19:56] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah, it's been so fun. And like I said, too, it's some of these people I consider friends now. I mean, I interviewed this guy, Vinney Chopra is his name. We interviewed him on both shows. He's a real estate investor, but he also has this thing, like a smile philosophy. He just smiles all the time. People call him Mr. Smiles. That's how much he smiles. And he's just so positive and so happy. And he has this book, "Positivity Makes Profitability" and he was coming out with that book and we were like, "Yeah, I want to interview him for the last life ever show." So I talked to him twice and then he had me on his show. And then pretty soon he's like texting me and each of these stories so cool. The guy comes-- he's Indian-- and he comes to the United States at like 20 years old, with $7 in his pocket. And now he's in his early sixties and he has 4,000 apartment units or something crazy like that. And he just attributes the whole thing to mindset. It's like, you just gotta be nice and friendly all the time and everything works out for you. And I was like, this is so awesome just to meet people like that and then have them text you and be like, "Hey, next time I'm in Chattanooga, well, let's get together and have dinner or something." You know, it's just really weird how normal people are when you actually get to know them.

[00:21:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed. Yes.  I talk about this quite a bit on the, on this podcast, but you know, just talking about how sometimes we have these ideas of-- for, for instance, because we're talking about art, you know, we have this ideas of artists being these like really glamorous, you know, people with these glamorous lives and, and, you know, that's, that's 1% of the time and the other 99% of the time is hard work and literally scrubbing floors and, and all that, you know, hilarious, fun stuff. And so yeah, I like, I like that perspective, you know, we're all human and we were all trying to live, you know, our best, most inspired lives. But you know, sometimes that looks like just doing a thorough cleaning of something. It it's 99% work.

[00:21:50] Jeffrey Holst: Right. I agree with that completely. That's true of everything. I mean, putting together a podcast, you know, most of the work happens offline. It doesn't happen when we're just chatting, right? This is, this is the fun part, right? What we're doing right now. And, and then that's the, that's the way it is with every kind of art and anything that you're doing. Even if it's not art, the part that looks exciting, like if you're a lawyer and you know, I love being in trial, like that was fun. But, you know, getting ready for trial, that was a lot of work, you know, it just wasn't a lot of work. And I didn't like doing that work and, and, you know, so the thing is like, you can be satisfied with what you're accomplishing and that's okay if you're very passionate about the work that you're doing, then it's easy to put in the hard work to get ready for it. But it's not easy if you don't love what you're doing.

[00:22:38]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes. And I think that is such an important distinction. I recently finished reading "Big Magic" by Elizabeth Gilbert, which I highly, highly recommend to everyone.

[00:22:50] Jeffrey Holst: Wait, by Elizabeth Gilbert? Isn't she the love... "Eat, Pray, Love" lady?

[00:22:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, she is. And she wrote a book about overcoming fear as a creator.

[00:23:01] Jeffrey Holst: That's great.

[00:23:01] Lindsey Dinneen: As a creative, and it's brilliant.

[00:23:04] Jeffrey Holst: She wrote a really interesting book about marriage and relationships too, actually, I read a few years ago. I think I got on Audible or something. I really liked her. I'd liked that movie so much 'cause it's, it speaks to me when people are just following their passion, that's like, that's my thing. Right? That's what I want people to do. So I was like, I love this. I need to read it. So I didn't know this new book that you're talking about. I'll have to check it out.

[00:23:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, well, and she talks a lot about, you know, no matter what you choose in life, there are going to be elements that you are really not going to like. And that, that suck, frankly. And so you have to decide what you're willing to put up with, because every single thing has its own set of problems or frustrations or whatever, you have to decide which ones are going to be worth it because you're so passionate about what you're doing. So basically there's no way to avoid that. I seriously think it's such a misnomer when people talk about, "Oh, you know, when you find a job you love, you'll never have to work a day in your life." I think that's pretty ridiculous.

[00:24:03] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah. That's, that's it's nonsense.

[00:24:06] Lindsey Dinneen: It's nonsense.

[00:24:07] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah, that bothers me. Actually, I hear people say that stuff all the time and I'm like, "No, the secret to being really happy in life honestly, is in my opinion, figuring out how to buy your time back as soon as you possibly can, like figure out what you can do to make sure that you don't ever have to go to a job you don't like, right? Because if you build a business or you make investments or whatever it is to get your basics covered, then you have the freedom to play. And that's where you really get to enjoy your life is when you can play. Like if you had an unlimited amount of money, would you still dance? And the answer is yes, of course you would, but would you do everything that you do? Probably not, right? And so I'm not there. I don't have an unlimited amount of money, but I feel like if you can get to the point where you have your basics covered, then you get a lot more freedom to do the stuff that's important to you."

[00:25:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that. I totally agree. Absolutely. So I'm curious, 'cause you mentioned, you know, realizing now back in the day that you had sort of accomplished your, your bucket list dream. So I'm curious, what are your new bucket list dreams? If you don't mind sharing?

[00:25:20] Jeffrey Holst: I don't have a bucket list currently. I, I reject the term "bucket list." Probably it's just an overly technical issue, but you know, I completed my bucket list and then like two weeks later, I was in the hospital dying and I thought to myself, "One, don't ever finish your bucket list. That's a terrible idea because you're going to get leukemia and die. And two, you know, obviously that's not true, but that's what it felt like at the time, right? And the second thing was like, you know, the idea of a bucket list is, is wrong in a way." So I have a life list now, things that I would love to do, but I don't feel like I have to check them off. They're just things that would be really cool if I did them. And so it's less defined than what a bucket list traditionally is. But there's a lot of stuff on it. Like I think of new stuff all the time.  I'll have a book that I'm about done writing. I'd like to get that published. That's, that's up there. I want to build out our charitable arm a lot more. We have a foundation where we help people with sort of like micro grants. Like we've paid rent for people a few times, or we paid for tuition for a seven year old child in Tanzania.

[00:26:25]Yeah, so like, it's just like, you know, where a small amount of money can make a big impact in someone's life. That's, that's one of the things that we're really passionate about. And I just gotta keep like living an interesting life. Like that's, that's really my goal. So last year in February, so just over a year ago now, I spent the entire month in Africa. That was good timing too, ' cause you know, we haven't been able to travel since, but I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro and I went on a Serengeti Safari and saw the Willdabeast migration, you know, firsthand.  And then also like went in and met up with people running charities and school for a school for disabled people in Ethiopia. And, you know, so just want to keep doing stuff like that. Like, I mean, I could list stuff, but it doesn't really matter. I have one goal that's, I call it my 50/50/50/7 goal and that's 50 states, 50 countries, seven continents before I turned 50. That's like a goal of mine to do those. Well, on the way I've got my 50 states in, I'm at like 39 countries.

[00:27:24]And I've got a trip booked to Antarctica. That'll be my seventh continent scheduled for next January. So like 10 months from now. And this year I was like, you know what, if we can start traveling again, I'm going to ramp up my goal and try to finish my 50/50/50/7 goal when I get to Antarctica. So I want to go to 11 countries this year. That'd be really cool 'cause then I'd get, you know, I get my goal done. I'm not sure that'll happen 'cause I can't control the pandemic, but it looks like we're getting closer to opening up. So hopefully.

[00:27:55]Lindsey Dinneen:  That is awesome. And I have to say, I am so incredibly jealous of your trip to Antarctica, because that would also be my seventh continent. So it's my goal to get there too. Oh my gosh. Yes.

[00:28:07] Jeffrey Holst: The crazy thing about Antarctica is that I don't know hardly anyone that's been there 'cause it's sort of hard to get there, as you know. But when I was in Australia a few years ago, I met this couple that had been to 150 countries and Australia was their seventh continent. And I said, "Wow, you went to Antarctica like that. Must've been interesting." And they're like, "Yeah, it was our favorite place that we've ever been." And that same reaction from everyone I know that goes to Antarctica. They all say, "Oh yeah, it's the best place we ever traveled." And the thing about that is like people who go to Antarctica are pretty well-traveled, right? Because I don't know very many people that have been to Antarctica, but the ones that I have have been a lot of places. Like just the other day, I interviewed on Last Life Ever, this guy, Lee Abbamonte, who is the youngest person in the world to have traveled to every country recognized by the UN and the North and South Pole, right?

[00:29:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:29:01]Jeffrey Holst:  Like he's 36 and he's literally been everywhere in the world. I mean, that's a pretty, you know, impressive run of travel, right? And the weird part is he didn't start traveling until he was 22. So in 14 years, he went everywhere in the world and in the world. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah. And I mean, that was a fascinating interview and like, people should check it out, 'cause that guy's just amazing. Like, even if you don't check out my interview with him, just go Google him and find his interviews with other people because he's just a fascinating guy.  It's like I was saying about, you know, podcasting and meeting people. That's I want to keep doing that, 'cause like now, like I have Lee Abbamonte's cell phone number and I can text him and be like, "Hey, give me some advice on whatever, you know, like when I go to Antarctica, what should I do?" So that's what I did.

[00:29:45] And, and just the other day we interviewed this lady, Heather Moyse, who is an Olympic gold medalist in the bobsled two time, bobsledding gold medalist, right? And she's a Canadian gold medalist. And she sent me a copy of her book and has been texting me like, "Hey, have you read it yet? I can't, I can't wait to hear what you think of it. "And it's just crazy to be like, having conversations with people that are just doing all these really crazy things. And she also has been to Antarctica, and which is a weird coincidence now that I think of it because she actually was telling me, "Oh, I'm so jealous that you climbed mountain Kilimanjaro. That must've been really hard. The only kind of climbing I've ever done is I once climbed the highest mountain in Antarctica." I was like, what? Like, how can that be that's way harder than climbing Kilimanjaro, which by the way is very difficult. It's not a joke, but you know, 30, 40,000 people a year climb Kilimanjaro. Only a handful of people have ever climbed the highest mountain in Antarctica. It's just a little bit of a different kind of level.

[00:30:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, that is a very intimidating undertaking to me. So kudos.

[00:30:56] Jeffrey Holst: She did it for a veteran's charity, actually. So it was to raise money and awareness to people that were suffering post-traumatic injuries. And so it's like an awesome cause and they raised a bunch of money and, you know, helped a lot of people out. So I get why she did it, but she was like, it was really hard. It was really cold. It was also amazing. And I'm like exactly how I felt about Kilimanjaro: really hard, really cold and also amazing. So yeah.

[00:31:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Love it. Perfect. Well, obviously you interview some really, really amazing people. So how can our audience find your podcasts and, or follow your journey? Obviously, you're going to be hopefully publishing this book here soon too. So for anyone who kind of wants to keep up with you, how can they do that?

[00:31:41] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah, I mean, so I'm pretty active on Instagram. It's just at Jeffrey Holst so people can follow me there for sure. But we have a Last Life Ever private Facebook group. It's just literally Last Life Ever Private Group is the name of it. We're very creative like that. And people can join that group is the best possible way to stay in touch with me because people in that group, that's where I hang out. That's my passion. And then of course they can follow my, you know, the shows on all the podcasting apps and YouTube and all that. So Last Life Ever and Old-Fashioned Real Estate, both available everywhere that podcasts are.

[00:32:15]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. Thank you. And now, oh yeah, for sure. And I do have three questions that I always like to ask my guests, if you're okay with that.

[00:32:26] Jeffrey Holst: What if I said no? Has anyone said no?

[00:32:28] Lindsey Dinneen: No one's said no, but I mean, I wouldn't want them to feel like they couldn't.

[00:32:33] Jeffrey Holst: Yeah, I know. I just always think like, it's totally tangential, but I always feel like when people ask you, like, if you're okay with that, they really mean you are okay with this... right? I am okay with it. So go ahead.

[00:32:47]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, good. I mean, it would be breaking with tradition if you were like, "No, I really don't want to be asking." But I would respect that too, so, oh, my word. Okay. So the first question is, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:33:03] Jeffrey Holst: Wow. That's a big question. So for me, art is, is any kind of creative endeavor that's that allows the creator to express themselves.

[00:33:14]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Concise, and I love it. Okay. And then, secondly, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:33:24]Jeffrey Holst: I think that artists bring perspective to everything. If we didn't have artists, our world would be very boring. So I think perspective and entertainment are probably the two things that are most important.

[00:33:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. Okay. And then finally, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is, inclusive referring to an artist who puts their work out there and who provides some context behind that, whether it's the inspiration or program notes or a title. Versus an artist who is exclusive and puts their work out there, but doesn't include context behind it, so it's left solely up to the viewer to make of it what they will.

[00:34:15] Jeffrey Holst: So I don't know that there's really a right answer to that. Like I think that different artists have different reasons for what they're doing. And I think like art is really like an expression of whatever the creator is, the artist is wanting to do. So I'm not sure that there's really a right answer. I much prefer things that do have a little bit of explanation behind it. I interviewed David  Liebow is his artist's name, but so Liebow is a sort of post-modern cartoon artist, right? Like he's a Miami muralist, that sort of made big, right? Not super big, but big enough that he's, you know, painted like cruise ships and stuff like that, right? And in, in, in liquor bottles, I think he did a whole run for Absolute and like stuff like this, right? So, so he's kind of like a, you know, pop art slash you know, a little bit of other stuff. And I asked him something along those exact lines, like I said, "Well, what does this mean? Like this, this piece of art that you have, and it had words on it, right? Like, I, I mean, it's, it has has words, but it didn't seem to connect to me." And he's like, "Thinking about art is that art is whatever the viewer takes from it. That's what matters." And so, well, he did give some context by giving it titles, right. And putting some words into his art. He also wants people to interpret it however they feel comfortable with it. And I thought that's maybe the right balance somewhere in between. Right. You give a little bit of context, but you leave a lot of it open to interpretation.

[00:35:46]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the perfect way to describe that balance. Absolutely. Very cool. Well, thank you so very much for being here, Jeff. I really, really appreciate your time and wow. Your stories are so cool and inspiring, and I just love how you obviously love and appreciate art and what it's meant to you. So thank you so much again for being here and sharing those stories with us. I really appreciate it.

[00:36:16] Jeffrey Holst: Oh, thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed coming on and I feel like I could talk about art and like my life as much as you wanted. So, you know, if you get bored sometime, you can always give me a call.

[00:36:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love it. Yeah, like I was sharing with you before I can talk all art all day with anybody. I love it. So. Well, thank you again, and thank you to everyone who's listened to this episode. Please make sure that you go and listen to some of Jeff's podcast episodes, subscribe to what he's doing, maybe check out that Facebook group so you can kind of stay in the loop too. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am after listening to this, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:37:06] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:37:15]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, Lindsey here. And I just want to share with you a little bit more about the SpeakEasy Method. Now, if you've had a chance to listen to Gregg Gonzalez' interview on Artfully Told, you're already a little familiar with the process that is so unique, so cool that is the SpeakEasy Method is for people who are ready to write their books, but maybe aren't super confident about their own writing ability, or just want a more streamlined way of doing it. Gregg and his team at SpeakEasy are experts at these amazing questions that help your authentic voice to shine through. So what they do is they go through recorded audio interviews with you and these recordings are then transcribed and put into manuscript format ready to go. So what's cool about that is instead of months and months, or years and years of you writing a book, they will actually take you from concept to published and it can be as little as nine months. That is one of the most recent success stories that they have accomplished. And it is just a really innovative method that I am personally so excited to help represent and help share the word about because what Gregg and his team are doing is absolutely life-changing for prospective authors. And I highly encourage you to book a discovery call with Gregg  or another member of his team to learn more and see if this could be the perfect fit for you. It's a hundred percent complimentary and you can do so easily by going to his website and that's www.joy-ful-iving.com/speakeasy. And again, that spelled out is J O Y dash F U L living.com/speakeasy.