Episode 058 - Anthony Saldana & Jason Figueira

In today's episode, I welcome Anthony Saldana & Jason Figueira! Anthony and Justin have been collaborating ever since they met in college, and are the writers, filmmakers, and producers of two documentaries to far: "Straight Off the Canvas" and "We're Ordinary People." Their work showcases blind artists and the way that they perceive and create beautiful artwork. (Fun fact: the cover image is a little behind-the-scenes of fliming "Straight Off the Canvas!")

 

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Episode 58 - Anthony Saldana & Jason Figueira

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12]Roman:  All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful. 

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am just so excited to have as my guests today, two wonderful people. They are the producers and creators of the documentary, Straight Off the Canvas," and they are Anthony Saldana and Jason Figueira and I'm just so happy that you all are here. Thank you so much for being here, guys. And I can't wait to dive in.

[00:01:00] Anthony Saldana: It's good to be here.

[00:01:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome.

[00:01:03] Jason Figueira: It's wonderful to be here.

[00:01:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I would love if you would just share a little bit maybe about your background and your story and what got you involved and in art in general, but then I know you guys have this powerful documentary that you've recently produced.  I would just love to hear all about that.

[00:01:25] Anthony Saldana: Sure. We are two guys from Queens, New York. My name is Anthony and I was born in Queens, New York, and really was always interested in being a creative person, and really didn't find the right outlet until college. I was in, in high school. I had a lot of creative energy, but didn't have the right outlet. And then in college I met Jason. And we just formed such a great friendship. We really didn't do much like television or class, too many production classes together. We went to Queens College together and really formed a great friendship during that time. And we both graduated in 2008 and from there, you know, I started a career in customer service in New York City, but never left my, my love and passion for video and television. And I would always have an idea working in my head, and I share ideas with Jason, and we've been kind of collaborating together over the last has it been like 12 years, 13 years, Jason?

[00:02:36] Jason Figueira: Yeah, I would say about 12 years, actually.

[00:02:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's incredible.   You met in college and then went from there, and wow, so this friendship has just evolved and grown over the years and, and now you guys make really cool things together. That's awesome. So I'm so curious. I know, you know, Anthony, you talked a little bit about dabbling in art and how art has been a part of your life. And Jason, I'm curious, how has art been a part of your life as well? Or what's your background and story too?

[00:03:09] Jason Figueira: Well ,in high school I had a different story. I wanted to work in animation.  I wouldn't say I was bad at drawing, but I didn't have enough patience to sit down and learn how to draw professionally. And I had all these great ideas in my head of what I wanted something to look like, but just getting it down on paper was so difficult. And I'd see kids who, it seemed like they had a natural gift for drawing. And I was like, "Aw, man, I'd like to do that." But when I went to college, I was just going to major in computer science and just do creative work on the side. And I decided, you know what? If I'm going to do computer science, I'm going to end up being here for a long time, because I'm not good at math either. So I went through my careers handbook and I saw Media Studies, and I said, you know what? I have, I wanted to do something creative. Maybe it should be my career first and foremost. Because my heart wasn't really in computer science. I love technology. I loved working with computers, but that wasn't really going to be what I wanted to do as a main career.

[00:04:17] And so I joined Media Studies and I just went in, took some of the beginning classes and from there on out, everything about the field just interested me. And when I met Anthony, it was in one of, one of the computer science classes. And,  when I talked to him, I was like, "Oh, we're going to get along. It really seems like we're going to get along here." And from there on out, we've just been, you know, doing creative work because it's, it's what we love to do, you know, plain and simple. That's just really what it is. So, yeah. That's how I got started in here and I'm still looking to write for animation and I just, you know, do it in my spare time too. But thanks to media, I'm able to develop my creative energy even more so. That's where I fall in this story.

[00:05:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, that's fantastic. Well, and I love your-- I can relate to this so much because I'm sort of, one of those want to be really good fine artist, but I... nope. Nope. It's just not in my wheelhouse. It's like I see-- I remember my art teacher back in-- oh, gosh, I think of middle school-- just, I mean, bless his heart. He tried so hard with me and I just could not translate what I was looking at on to a paper. Just never made sense.

[00:05:41]Anthony Saldana:  I think I can relate.

[00:05:43] Jason Figueira: I completely understand.

[00:05:45]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It's so funny. And I just have so much respect for fine artists who can just look at something and go, "Oh yeah, I can totally see where all the shadows are and how you need to, you know..." I, anyway, just that's an aside, but yes I can relate is really what I'm boiling this down to. So. Okay. So then you guys obviously hit it off and, you know, started collaborating. So have you guys done more than the documentary? And I can't wait to hear more about that specifically, but also before that, have you worked on other projects together as well?

[00:06:21] Anthony Saldana: Yes. Our, our first documentary that we did was a documentary about visually impaired activists here in New York City called, "We're Ordinary People." I don't have a visual impairment, but I was just interested in how blind people perceive art. And I picked up a book one day and it was "Ordinary Daylight" by Andrew Potok. And he is basically an artist who is going blind and is, is so affected by that. That traumatic turning point in his life that he does a, a therapy of where bees sting his eyes for him to gain some recovery. And reading that book really affected me. So I told Jason that I wanted to do a documentary about blind people and knowing that there's not too many films or TV shows about that show blind people in such a positive way or at all on television. So I felt that it was important to do a documentary about, about blind activists and what, what blind people need here, you know, in the community. And then I can have a right to do a documentary about blind painters. So I'd kind of pitched that idea to Jason and he was excited. He was actually attending grad school at the time. So. It gave him an opportunity to get out there in the field.

[00:07:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. That's such a cool story. And also I'm cringing so much about the bee stings. Oh man.

[00:08:01] Anthony Saldana: Right, right. And I was too, and that's why it just affected me so much. Do you know, you think about like, yeah, I just picked up the book thinking, "I want to know how a blind person perceives art," and that's that, you know, I got to find his story. So.

[00:08:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That's so cool. And so Jason, can you share more about your reaction when Anthony shared this vision with you and sort of how that spoke to you and what that kind of led to?

[00:08:31] Jason Figueira: Sure. So when Anthony called me one night and he was telling me about his idea that he wanted to film, I was looking for way to start practicing what I had learned in grad school. I think I'd been there for about a year, a year and a half. And I was going to Hofstra at the time and they had just started their documentary program and I was very eager to really test out my skills and, you know, really see what I was capable of. And when he told me about this story, I was very intrigued because I never really stopped to think about how would a blind person perceive art. And I said, you know what? This is, this is something I'd like to learn about too. So it wasn't just a way for me to practice my skills. It was a way for me to learn about an aspect of a community I had rarely ever interacted with.

[00:09:28] And I said, you know, this is, this is one aspect of documentary is-- you're kind of like an anthropologist and you're going to a new culture you've never interacted with before. And you're learning about everything about them and, you know, their different characteristics, personalities. And I think when we went on this adventure, I think we came out with a new appreciation for the blind community, especially in the art field. And especially after this, doing this film, I got to say that even some of the work I've seen from blind artists, it reminded me of high school. They were like those kids who could draw. It was amazing watching someone like Elizabeth Castellano make a painting. It was absolutely beautiful. I just said, you know what? I had never stopped to think about this, you know, and this film was like a window into learning about how art was not just a visual medium, but really a medium for our other senses. And I, I gotta say I'm really glad I went with Anthony on, on this film and supported him because it's been an excellent adventure to say the least.

[00:10:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, I can imagine. That is so cool. And see, that's one of the things that I just love the most about art is the fact that it does open our eyes to other perspectives and other experiences that maybe we haven't gone through or don't have a lot of knowledge of or whatever. But when you are able to bring art into the mix and share your stories through it, it's so cool how it can connect people and make you think about things in ways that you wouldn't have otherwise, maybe. That's really cool. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So then you also have done "Straight Off the Canvas." Can you tell us more about that?

[00:11:35] Anthony Saldana: Yes.  So once I completed the "We're Ordinary People" documentary about the blind activist, you know, I was really excited because that documentary itself won a number of awards. And I felt like it was, it was time be able to tell a story about visually impaired artists. So  I was trying to research about artists who had visual impairments here in New York City. And I, I found a news article for the New York Times about an artist who was legally blind and teaching art in the New York City Public School System. And she had a website, so I contacted her and her name was, is Elizabeth Castillano. And so in the moment I sent the email to her, she was so excited. And the funny thing is that, that I never knew that. You know, I thought it was going to-- I didn't think that that journey was going to take 10 years-- but that process of, you know, calling her and say, "Hey, can I interview" that that happened in 2011.  So the documentary itself is really about not only Elizabeth, but we went out to Lavelle School for the Blind, which is in the Bronx, New York.

[00:12:50] And we interviewed the art teacher, Jessica Jones, who was also blind, teaching her blind students preparing them for an art show. And I also felt that it was important to have the Art Beyond Sight, which is in Oregon, a nonprofit organization that helps make art museums accessible for visually impaired. I really felt that it was very important for them to be them to be included in the film because, you know, it's not just about any classroom-- art should be accessible in the museums. And so we, we focused a lot on that and how art can be healing and a therapy for not just for, for blind people, but everyone. Art is a therapy and, and can really help us through some dark times, especially during the pandemic.

[00:13:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Jason, do you have anything to add to that experience from your own perspective?

[00:13:56]Jason Figueira: I have to say when I, I think-- one of my favorite parts of the film, one of my favorite parts of production rather-- was filming the art show because watching some of their creations-- it, it was truly beautiful. I know we were filming two of their students who created Maleficent from Disney's, "Snow White." And it was, it was absolutely beautiful. And a lot of the art there wasn't just a project. A lot of the art was personal to them. They were, some of them had mentors, parents, friends that had motivated them to, to basically keep going. And it was wonderful to see not only how beautiful their art was, but how connected they were with it.

[00:14:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Wow. Oh my goodness. I cannot wait to see this. I've I've got to hop on this, clearly. That's that sounds...

[00:14:52] Anthony Saldana: We've got a VIP link just for you.

[00:14:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Fantastic. Oh, so cool and special. You know, it's so interesting that you, that that was the subject of your documentary. I have a friend here in Kansas City who is a fine artist, and she's brilliant. I mean, I think her work is just incredible, and her name is Katheryn Krouse and she's actually one of the guests that I've interviewed before, but she is kind of in a similar situation, where she is in the process of losing her eyesight and it makes her art so much more vibrant. I mean, the colors that she chooses are just bright and splashy, and she chooses like very joyful sort of, you know, gorgeous settings. And it's just so cool to hear her story, and I think that sometimes, you know, when you don't have the ability to experience life with all of your senses in the way that you might prefer, it's so interesting to hear the perspective or see the art that comes out because it's beautiful and special. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing.

[00:16:08] Anthony Saldana: I definitely wanted to interview, you know, different women with different stories. So, Elizabeth who's a, the main subject of our film, she was born legally blind, and then at the age of 13, had surgery so she would gain some sight, but still is legally blind and has a dog. And I also interviewed Jessica Jones, who lost her sight as an adult due to diabetes. So, you know, everyone has their own different story, but it's really the, I think the point really is that, you know, they, they found a way to continue making the work that they're passionate about. And really that motivated, that motivated us in ways that I never expected when we started.

[00:16:54]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. Well, I'm sure there are some moments either from the film or through your own life experiences, whether it was, you know, watching someone experience your own art or whether you experienced art that kind of stick out to you in your memory as, "Hey, I've got to file this away. This is, this is a moment to remember." Do you two have those stories to share?

[00:17:20]Anthony Saldana: Jason, you want to start?

[00:17:22]Jason Figueira: Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of stories between all of the films we've done. We've been on incredible journeys. I've got to say that the most unforgettable story was when we did our first film "We're Ordinary People," and we had to go to New Jersey to film a blind rabbi, and I remember so well because it was a day that was so beautiful, but getting home was so tragic because we basically took a bus to Jersey and then we had a cab take us to where that rabbi had lived. I think it was in the Demarest and we tried to get home the same way. We were going to take a cab to the bus stop. The bus stop was probably three or four miles away. So we said, "Okay, we're going to take a cab back." We call the cab company and they're like, "Oh no, we're done for the day."

[00:18:20]Anthony Saldana: This, this is before Uber.

[00:18:23] Jason Figueira: This is before Uber, mind you. So we now have--  we looked at each other and we said, "All right, we have no choice but to walk it. We turned on our camera and we just documented our terrible three to four mile hike in the summer, in blazing summer weather and just literally telling jokes as much as we can to get our minds off the fact that we're walking three to four miles to get to a bus stop, and pray to God we can reach there before sundown. 

[00:19:01] Anthony Saldana: We passed a Dunkin Donuts and I thought that I had seen heaven because I had never been so excited to see Dunkin Donuts. And then, and then I pass right by it. And there was a pizzeria. I'm like, "Ahhhh! Water!" I felt like I was in the desert...

[00:19:20] Jason Figueira: It's like in Loony Tunes films when they see a mirage.

[00:19:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. You know what I love about that story too, is, you know, I talk about this quite a bit and, you know, my guests who, who are involved in the arts, which I suppose on some level is everyone. Right? They, we talk a lot about how there's so much work behind the arts and it's so worth it, but the glamour happens 1% of the time and the other 99% of the time is, yeah, you guys having to walk the three to four miles.

[00:19:59] Anthony Saldana: Right? I mean, it's true. And it's on YouTube, the entire walk, we filmed it all. As for me, I have a, more of a... so in 2012, I was in the beginning of production for a documentary and I had a, a really traumatic workplace accident. It was an accident that affected my back and my neck. And it, I was supposed to do an interview with Elizabeth, you know, very, very soon. And I had then tell her that I was, you know, dealing with a medical issue that, you know, I still deal with to this day. And when I called her, she told me that she herself was having personal issues with, with physical issues, you know, with her back. And so we were just like committed. I found a therapy buddy in the person that was supposed to interview, who I really didn't know. And I just said, "Look, I know that this horrible thing has just happened to me. But I really want to tell your story." And in, in her head, she had something really, really traumatic happened to her. And she said to me that she wanted me to tell her story and we really bonded in that moment. And at the same time, Jason was having his physical issue, which we found inspiration from, and is going to be a future film of ours. You want to take that, Jason?

[00:21:31] Jason Figueira: Oh, well, sure. So in 2012 while Anthony was planning his next film and I was, you know, helping out with some suggestions or so, I began to experience early symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. And I had not known I was obsessive compulsive. I knew what it was, but I didn't know I was obsessive compulsive until I turned 26, and pretty much it exploded out of control and I couldn't stop fixing things. I couldn't do basic functions for myself anymore. I became completely shut in and I couldn't leave my house.  I lived with my parents and I could not leave my house. I couldn't even leave the corner of my house. It was so bad. And I one day went to a priest that we had known, me and Anthony had known, and he recommended I see a therapist. And that therapist said you have OCD. I don't know how to do behavioral therapy. So I recommend you go to Mount Sinai which is a hospital here in New York. It's a pretty well-known hospital and they have a center strictly for helping OCD patients. And I went there and I found out, well, they have a scale from one to 40 of how obsessive compulsive someone is. And on that scale out of 40, I rated about a 39. So I was really bad. I needed take medication and I needed behavioral therapy. So I spent about a good year and a half in behavioral therapy even before I could resume helping Anthony film "Straight Off the Canvas." So it was pretty tough when I was filming with him. I was in the throws of just recovering from my mental illness and it was a very dark period. It was, it really was tough, but thanks to friends like Anthony, you know, I was able to fight it. I chose not to give up and here I am today talking about film on your podcast, right?

[00:23:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you so much for sharing that and being, you know, honest and vulnerable.  I'm sure that's not a particularly easy thing to share, but I really appreciate it. And, and thank you for that, because I'm know that your story is going to impact so many people and I'm so excited that you all are going to be producing another documentary. That is really cool. Both of you, thank you. I'm just, I'm so inspired by what you all are doing. And I think, you know, documentaries are such a powerful way to share stories and to bring about just a conversation that might be otherwise difficult to have or uncomfortable to have. And it's really cool that what your work does brings art to lots of people in a very unique way. So thank you for doing what you're doing.

[00:24:40] Anthony Saldana: I appreciate that. And, you know, I felt like I had to share our story because the set was misty-eyed like, if you would ask me, like, "What's your dream project?" This is my dream project. And, and there, there was something very emotional about, about being able to film her painting, because  Elizabeth talks about painting as her therapy and that's what gets her through the dark days and, you know, being able to film her painting was that therapy for us. So it's just a, really a beautiful story.

[00:25:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it really is. And again, that's the power of the arts is it doesn't just affect the person who's doing it, but it affects the viewer or the participant. And then those effects just can have a snowball effect for other people. And then that's why, if you feel inspired to create on any level in any medium, please do so, because you just don't know what kind of impact you're going to have on yourself and on the world. You just don't know. Yeah, that is so cool, guys. Well, this is amazing and I'm sure that our listeners would love to, you know, interact with you, connect with you, and also support your work. So is there a way for us to connect with you and where can we watch your documentaries?

[00:26:08] Anthony Saldana: Sure. We're on Twitter. You can find us at, @straightcanvas, on Facebook is facebook.com/straightcanvas. We'll have all our information up on those social media sites. I'm trying to develop a, a website. When it does come up, we already purchased the domain of straightoffthecanvas.com. But right now you can find us on Twitter and we'll be able to update you guys on when the site will be up and ready and when our documentary will be in, in your area, because I want to definitely get it out to Kansas City.

[00:26:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. And you have a very  willing and excited audience in Kansas City. I'm not actually from here originally. And when I moved here, I just had this amazing recognition of how supportive of the arts Kansas City is. So you found your people, they will be receptive for sure.

[00:27:05] Anthony Saldana: Now I have a question for you though. So, so you're a dancer, right? Okay. So I'm a single guy. Like what, what's a good dance move I should learn as a single guy?

[00:27:21] Jason Figueira: Just don't fall!

[00:27:23] Anthony Saldana: Cause I got two legs, you know?

[00:27:26] Jason Figueira: But you still, you would still manage to fall with two legs.

[00:27:31] Anthony Saldana: I would! I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help the single male audience that are trying to get some help!

[00:27:39] Jason Figueira: Precisely.

[00:27:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Well, have you seen the movie "Hitch?"

[00:27:44] Anthony Saldana: Yes, yeah.

[00:27:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. You know the scene where Will Smith is teaching-- gosh, what's his name? The other main character-- anyway, how to dance? And he's like, "You live right here," and it's like a step touch, which is basically like a step to the side. And then you like put your other foot in. Yeah. I mean that, you just got to start somewhere, but honestly my husband's also not a dancer. He wouldn't consider himself to be, I think, in any way. But I think what worked for him was his willingness to try and just put himself out there. And if he looked a little silly, it didn't matter because I was just so impressed that he was trying.

[00:28:26] Anthony Saldana: Okay.

[00:28:27] Lindsey Dinneen: That's my advice. Just be you.

[00:28:31]Jason Figueira:  So will Carlton's dance work too from "The Prince of Bel-Aire?"

[00:28:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh man.

[00:28:36]Anthony Saldana: He's been perfecting that for years.

[00:28:41] Jason Figueira: Look, you got to try somewhere.

[00:28:43] Lindsey Dinneen: You do. And honestly, I think it's the effort that matters more than the results. Let's be real. Yup. Yup. Oh my word. That was fantastic. Yes. And if I come up with any other life advice, I'll I'll pass it along, but that's, that's my initial thoughts. Oh my gosh. Well this has been so much fun. I would love to ask you to the same three questions that I ask all my guests, if you're okay with that.

[00:29:15] Anthony Saldana: Sure.

[00:29:16] Jason Figueira: Sure.

[00:29:19]Lindsey Dinneen:  All right, here we go. So, first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:29:27] Anthony Saldana: Hmm, well, art can be a lot of things. It's something that you can make. You know,  you can express yourself in so many different ways and it doesn't matter the material that you use or the sense that you use. You can make something in two dimensional, three dimensional.  You can use your body as a dancer, like you, Lindsey, you're an artist, even though you say you can't do a drawing, but you can express yourself with your body. It's really about using your soul to basically express yourself to the world.

[00:30:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that.  And I, I love your use of the word "soul" and just the way that you described it, because I always tell people that I dance because it inspires my soul. And I think that that is what's so special about art and, you know, that's why I dance. But other people paint or sing, or, or, yeah. Oh, I love that. Jason, how about you?

[00:30:31] Jason Figueira: I would say I would, I, I remember someone from one of our Queens College courses, he was a Chinese film historian, and he had said that about films that they were kind of like a window into a director's mind. And I think that art in a way is a advanced form of communication. It's trying to communicate something, not just with words, but with sounds, with touch, something that it can appeal to almost all five senses. And I think it's like a window into someone's experience that it goes beyond just saying spoken dialogue we use every day. It's really helps other people. It helps bring them into an environment where an artist would like them to be your image, shaping a whole new reality in a way. And it's amazing what you can do with art. I mean, just from one picture, someone can leave their present day and be transported into a whole new one. So art, yeah, I would say is a very highly advanced form of communication.

[00:31:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Okay. And then what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:31:52] Anthony Saldana: Tell the truth. Just tell your own truth and also try to find your own. I know that stories have been told and retold, but try to find your own angle to, to put your own expression on, on a different take on a story. But I, I really believe in, in being honest in your work.

[00:32:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I agree. Jason?

[00:32:20] Jason Figueira: I think persistence is also something very important for an artist to have, because when you have a passion to tell a story, you don't give up telling it. There are a lot of obstacles that come up in any different kind-- dancing, whether it's painting, whether it's film or so many things that come up in your way. But as long as you have your passion to tell a story, you will overcome those obstacles. And I'd say, you know, there's an expression: a genius is 90% hard work and 10% ideas. So really it's about how much work you put into it. So I would say persistence is absolutely key for an artist to have, is absolutely a key quality rather, for an artist to have.

[00:33:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, I absolutely agree. It's all about the grit behind the passion. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I remember hearing one time somebody said that ideas without action are worthless. And I was kind of taken aback and I thought, "Oh, ouch, that hurts." Like, "Excuse you." But the reality is he was right. You know, you have to have both. So awesome. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive. And inclusive referring to an artist who puts their work out into the world and provide some context behind that, whether it's a title or show notes or the inspiration. Versus exclusive referring to an artist who does put their work out there, but doesn't provide the context, so it's left solely up to the viewer to determine what they will.

[00:34:07]Anthony Saldana: I like metaphors.  I love putting in my documentaries open-ended metaphors so that people can-- I don't like to have voiceovers to tell the audience what they should feel. And that's something that Jason and I, we've argued about many times over the last couple of years where he likes to just, Jason will say, "I want to tell them how, you know this..." and a great voiceover. And I said, "Nope, not me." So I hope that answers your question, Lindsey.

[00:34:40]Lindsey Dinneen:  I like that. And, but Jason, how about you? It sounds like you might have a slightly different perspective too.

[00:34:45]Jason Figueira: I think it depends on what kind of work an artist is doing. Some artwork is best left exclusive, you know, that's where their strength comes from. I think it mostly depends on what kind of art that artist is producing. From my style, I like to explain everything because I like to hear myself talk, but the point is, it depends on the project, really, for some projects being inclusive makes it stronger. So it works being an inclusive piece, but there are some pieces that are best left exclusive. So I think it really depends on what kind of project and artist is working on.

[00:35:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you both again, so very much for being here today. I'm so excited to learn about what you all do and also then to, you know, get to experience your art and the way that you're supporting other artists. I think that's really important and I commend you and thank you for what you're doing, and I'm just so excited to continue to follow your work, because obviously this is a awesome partnership that's just going to continue to produce wonderful things. So thank you for bringing art to the world. I appreciate it.

[00:36:08] Anthony Saldana: Thank you for having us. We will definitely send you that movie.

[00:36:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you. Well, and thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two, and I highly encourage you to check out their work, and we will catch you next time.

[00:36:33] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.