Artfully Told

Episode 027 - Emerson Mertens

In this episode, I welcome Emerson Mertens! She is a professional dancer, teacher, and choreographer, as well as graphic artist. She shares her powerful story about her own journey discovering health issues that had impacted her for years, and how that has transformed the way she views art, and now how she teaches and inspires her own students. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is a photo of Emerson dancing that she post-processed with her graphic design skills!)
 
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Episode 27 - Emerson Mertens
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am really excited to have today as my guest, the lovely Emerson Mertens, and she is a professional dancer, choreographer and teacher, as well as a graphic designer. And she is multitalented in many different aspects of art and life. And I am so excited to have her as my guest today and just learn a little bit more about her journey and all those good things. So thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:10] Emerson Mertens: Hi Lindsey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
[00:01:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you don't mind, I would love if you would share with everyone just a little bit about who you are and maybe your background and what you're up to.
[00:01:24] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely. Yeah, so I, I've been a dancer and an instructor and a choreographer for about 20 years now. And I focused a lot of my training on classical ballet, but I've also trained in several other styles. I've danced with several companies and organizations over the years, including the lovely VidaDance. So, you're a wonderful company. I had such a wonderful time doing that. And, now I mostly do freelance work, so I teach classes and workshops and I choreograph for different productions and, stage musicals. So I do a lot of that. And, I actually have a new project that I'm planning on launching really soon, which I'm really excited about. It's going to bring dance, training, and classes to people of all different ages and skill levels in a really whole new way that I've never done before. And it's going to be something that everybody can do at home. So I'm very looking forward to that. Very excited.
[00:02:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, how exciting, what a nice little sneak preview. I can't wait to find out more. Awesome. So are you planning to, and you don't have to go into too much detail if you don't want, but are you planning to do recordings kind of yourself? Like in your own home as well?
[00:02:45] Emerson Mertens: I am. Yes, I'm going to be doing some video classes and like breaking down technique and just all the things I've learned over the years, some different tips and, and just sort of everything that I've learned over all this time.
[00:03:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. And so how did you first start getting involved in, in dance?
[00:03:08] Emerson Mertens: Oh, that's a great question. I actually started when I was very young, I was about four years old and I started in ballet classes because I actually, one of my feet and legs was turned in more when I was born. So it was a way of sort of helping to train my muscles to work correctly. So, that's actually why I started dance, and then I just fell in love with it from there and turned it into my career.
[00:03:39]Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that makes complete sense. I think you're not an isolated case. Different dancers obviously start for different reasons, but I, I know that it could be so helpful for things like that. So. That's so cool. Thanks for sharing that. And then what kept you going? I mean, what made you sort of fall in love with it and then decide you wanted this to be a part of your life?
[00:04:05]Emerson Mertens: I really just fell in love with the art of it. I've always been artistic. I love drawing. And now I do the graphic design, so I've always just loved art and what it, how it connects people and it's really such a way to express oneself and really see, there's so much like beauty and just a wonderful way of communicating with the world through art. And so that's always been a huge draw for me in dance and performing, and really every, every form of art that I've been involved with over the years.
[00:04:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so when you sort of started transitioning to professional dancing and teaching and choreographing, was there anything in particular, like any moments in particular that surprised you or you thought, "Oh, I not realized it was going to be like this!" Or, or anything like that.
[00:05:09] Emerson Mertens: Yeah. Actually, I'd say that was a lot with choreography. Like I always enjoyed doing it, but I never, I never knew that that would be, that's really the part of dance that I really enjoy the most overall. Like, I love dancing. I love performing. I love teaching, but choreography was, sort of a very pleasant surprise to me as part of what I really wanted to focus on. And I just loved bringing it all together and then being able to teach that to other people and have their unique artistic expression come into my choreography and make it something unique that I didn't even see ahead of time, you know? So I had like my style and what I saw in the choreography, but then getting to see the people I work with bring their own special, unique, artistic expression to, it was just really awesome. I love that.
[00:06:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It is really special to see. To see somebody's basically soul come forth and to see how they can inspire other people through their art and their movement too. So that's cool. Excellent. And so I know you have a few stories in mind in particular that you were kind of thinking about sharing. So I would love to hear your stories.
[00:06:32] Emerson Mertens: Okay. Yeah. Great.  I would love to talk about specifically how I have a couple of different health conditions that I have discovered over the years and how that really has expanded my definition and how I see an artist. So to give a little backstory and context, so hopefully it makes sense overall, I'll give a little, a little behind-the-scenes on some of this. So I think there, there are obviously a lot of different kinds of art and different ways of expressing art. But a lot of times within those art forms, especially in classical ballet and the dance world in general, there's these certain boxes and molds that an artist is sort of expected to fit into. And I think, especially with ballet training, there are very specific ideals that are sort of presented as being the ultimate, like what we are supposed to be. So there can be a lot of, if you want to be a professional dancer, then you have to fit this certain criteria.
[00:07:49] And I think that sometimes that can be detrimental to the artist in a lot of ways. And that's not to say that there isn't a place for certain, reasonable standards or a level of discipline, things like achieving correct technique for your own health and physical safety is very, very important. So I do see how that is essential to the art form and the training. But on the other hand, I think there also exists a lot of expectations and sort of these underlying beliefs that I believe can be quite limiting and damaging to an artist, not only in their own expression, but also on a personal level.
[00:08:32] And I, I've experienced that myself and I have talked to a lot of people over the years that have very similar experience. So I think there's a lot of, unfortunately a sort of unhealthy strive toward perfection in a lot of ballet in particular, but also just in dance in general. And I think it really haunts a lot of artists. And even if it isn't quite that extreme for them, there's still this idea that's perpetuated in the world of, well, this is what an artist should be, or this is what a dancer ultimately should look like. So over the years, I started to realize that this underlying narrative exists in a lot of the areas of training and performing and even in, in teaching as well. And it became even more evident to me as I began to have more health problems and physical issues in myself. So I started to realize that the more challenges I began to have physically, the less I essentially fit in. I didn't really fit the mold that the dancer was supposed to fit into. So I had a lot of teachers throughout the years that, some were really amazing, wonderful teachers, and some were not so great if I'm being honest. And sometimes, some of the not-so-great ones were intentionally, pretty emotionally and mentally abusive to their students. So that was very painful to me personally. And I knew that that isn't how it should be done. That's not how we should treat people.
[00:10:17] And thankfully not all teachers are like that. But what I started to realize was that even with a lot of really good-hearted, great teachers, there's still sort of this underlying thought, that's a part of the whole system really, that a dancer has to look like this. There was a lot of that in classes and auditions. It was just sort of this, this overarching idea that the artist had to be this way. So I even remember a time when a really wonderful instructor that I worked with who was highly trained at a world-renowned school. She told me that she didn't know how to break it to her own daughter that she would never be a dancer because she didn't have the right body type. And so that was just really sad to me because it seems sad to her too, because it was like this unavoidable reality that could never be changed, even for her own daughter. And I see this a lot in dance and I've just seen so many people give up on their dreams because they didn't look the part or fit the mold.
[00:11:32] And if I had listened to some of the comments from my own instructors throughout the years, I really don't think I would have ever become a dancer or a choreographer or even a teacher myself. So kind of bringing it full circle here. When it comes to my own health journey, I always knew something was just a bit off. Like it just didn't add up always. I couldn't always do what everyone else could do. And I struggled greatly with what I thought at the time was a pretty severe lack of stamina. So, no matter how hard I pushed, I could never really get past the fact that I felt physically very tired and I had a significant amount of pain, especially in my joints, and muscles too. But mostly in my joints, I knew I had scoliosis because I had been diagnosed when I was very, very young, like in my teens, with scoliosis, which is actually somewhat common. A lot of dancers deal with that, but I knew that my daily pain issues went beyond just that, what comes with that, usually the really sore back and those sorts of issues.
[00:12:49] Things were going wrong really all over my body. And no one, not even my doctors, were able to figure out what was going wrong at the time. So it wasn't until I was diagnosed in 2014 with joint hypermobility syndrome, that's when I finally started to understand what the underlying problems were, which essentially it means that my body does not produce enough collagen. So my tendons and joints and muscles, really everything, are effected by that. So, that was something that I was dealing with all these years in training that I never really understood why I couldn't do what everybody else could do, at least not to the same extent that they could do it. I remember having teachers back then who were trying to work with me, and really great, awesome teachers, they were trying to work with me and help me figure out why I couldn't do everything the sort of normal way as far as training goes and technique.
[00:14:03] And I remember one of them telling me who was trained in Pilates and gyrotonics, he told me, he said, "It's, it's so interesting because you figured out a way without even realizing it, how to sort of mimic technical positions without..." I was able to mimic them in a way that fit my body type and how it worked. So they looked, it looked technically correct, but I was actually doing it different than everyone else. So that was really interesting to me because I didn't know why that was. I didn't realize I was doing it differently. So it, it turns out this was part of the reason because this condition affects the way I move and how it feels.
[00:14:49] So fast forward to this year and I actually have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. So now I have these two diagnoses, three, actually, if you count the scoliosis diagnosis from many, many, many years ago, and now looking back on my years of training, I, I do finally see why those challenges were so different for me than most of my fellow students. And the thing with both a joint hypermobility syndrome and fibromyalgia is that you can have good days and bad days. So some days I feel like I can run a mile, and then other days I literally feel like I can't get out of bed. So it turned out it wasn't just a lack of stamina like I thought it might be, because stamina can really be built up over time and most people can, can get past that. So what it really was was fatigue. So it was sort of this constant, heavy, tired feeling that comes with those physical conditions. So essentially it felt like I was trying to drag myself through mud. And now I look back and I think I really do wish I knew then what I know now. Like I know a lot of people say that that's something we all kind of say, as we get older, you know, there are a lot of things that we think, "Oh, if only I knew that then," and this is one of those for me, because I was just so extremely hard on myself.
[00:16:20] Like I did not think very highly of myself in even a good way. You know, as a dancer or as an athlete in any way, I just thought I wasn't good enough and I never would be. And I had, I had a lot of instructors who were exceptionally hard on me, and I just don't think it was in a way that I don't think is good for any student to really experience. I was a lot of times treated like I was dumb or lazy because I couldn't do what other people could do. And I knew that couldn't be the case because I was literally training and rehearsing 20 to 30 hours a week and understudying every part I could and really working overtime at home. So it just didn't add up to me that that would be the reason, even though I couldn't figure out what the reason was.
[00:17:16]And I think sometimes instructors can forget that there can be many reasons that a student isn't meeting their expectations. And sometimes we have to ask ourselves as instructors, if our expectations are, are really reasonable, because it's very important to teach discipline and expect our students to give that 100% effort. But at the same time, we need to be careful that we don't always place this impossible standard of perfection on our students, that's ultimately impossible to obtain, which is a lot of what I've experienced and from what I've heard from other people, it's a lot of what other people have experienced as well. So throughout my years of teaching, I found that it's actually pretty rare to come across a student who just truly does not want to try because they don't want to work hard. There's almost always some other reason that isn't adding up. And for me, that was my physical conditions that no one knew anything about at the time. I didn't, my doctors didn't.
[00:18:32] So I didn't really fit the mold as a dancer in one way or another. And so I that's when I really, really started to believe that I just wasn't good enough and I never would be. And that ultimately stole my love of dance and took my personal artistry away in a sense for a very long time. I had a very back and forth sort of relationship with dance and that there were times where I just, I didn't want to do it anymore because I just felt like it wasn't for me, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't, I could never be what I wanted to be or what I was supposed to be. So it just didn't work for me in that way. But now that I know all of this, I'm really, I'm really grateful and thankful to have these answers now and to know this, and it's really changed my perspective now as an artist and also as a teacher. As I'm teaching other people how to grow into their own artistry, it's really broadened my definition of what the artist should be, because it may be true that we can't all do the same things and fit into every specific box. But I think that's, that's okay. You know, overall everyone has their own individual challenges and unique strengths, and artistry really should be individual and unique.
[00:20:05] But I think a lot of people have kind of forgotten that over time. So now as an instructor and a choreographer myself, I really make it a priority to encourage my students to become their own unique artists and not just drive for this sort of elusive technically perfect dancer ideal look. So that's something that now I have my personal experience that is changing the way I see the entire world of dance. And I'm really grateful for that. And it's helping me too be more observant and have more compassion towards everyone I work with because I've had many students who, like me, didn't really fit the mold and it might be because they had physical challenges or maybe even just a learning difference.
[00:21:04] And that unfortunately caused a lot of people to just sort of set them aside. But I don't believe we should be doing that. Even if there's something that may keep them from becoming a principal dancer with the New York City Ballet or win trophies in a competition or those things that we all kind of strive for in the dance world, it doesn't mean that they still can't be amazing artists in other ways or other avenues. So, since there are so many different ways to define an artist, my own health journey has really helped me to expand that definition way beyond what I was often taught or shown throughout my years of training.
[00:21:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's amazing. That is such a powerful story. And first of all, thank you for sharing that because I know that, you know, parts of that story are probably difficult to reminisce over and all of that. So, so first of all, thank you so much for just being real with us, because that's a, that's a big deal. I really appreciate that.
[00:22:13] Emerson Mertens: Well, thank you. That, that means a lot.
[00:22:16]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. And it's so interesting. I mean, I was completely captivated by your story and I think, I personally obviously have also-- for those who know this about me--have been in the dance world for my entire life too. And I can completely resonate with a lot of what Emerson has talked about in the way that, especially a more, I would say, old-school way of training sort of indicated that everyone should sort of fit this one, particular look, this one particular style, et cetera. And, I'm thankful for, for teachers and choreographers like Emerson who are stepping out to say, "You know, there are other ways," like you said, "There are other avenues and we should celebrate the uniqueness instead of squelching it." And, I'm so sorry that you've had those health issues, but I have to say, I think that perspective that you now bring to your students and to those that you work with, your colleagues, that's amazing. I mean, that's what the dance world needs. That's what the world needs is more empathy and compassion and striving to understand and not just criticize.
[00:23:34] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely. I do, I see it as sort of that, that silver lining in my experiences. Yes. It's, it's hard when we all go through these things and they're things we wish we didn't have to go through, but it can-- our experience, if we feel comfortable and are able to share it with others, then it can help someone else going through that as well, and be sort of that way we reach out and, and change things for the better and encourage other people to really be themselves and get through these hard times.
[00:24:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm curious, do you have any particular advice for someone, whether they're a dancer or any kind of aspiring artist, what would you tell someone who was kind of feeling maybe a little isolated or not part of the mold? Or what would you tell them to, to encourage them to still try?
[00:24:40] Emerson Mertens: Yeah, I, I would say, and this is what I tell my students all of the time, in, in my classes that I teach is, always, always try your best. And that's really, you can be proud of that. You can know that you gave it your full effort, and if it isn't exactly like someone else's, if the outcome isn't exactly like what you see in someone else, that's okay. And you don't have to be, you don't have to look or perform, or whatever it may be, exactly like someone else, because essentially that's what art is. It's very personal and it's very individual and unique and you can bring something to whatever it is you love in a way that no one else can. And so you should always just give everything. You've got to do that. And that will be, that will be enough. You don't have to be enough for anyone in this sort of, this look of perfection or ideal of the ultimate or whatever. Like I said, there are standards that we should--good standards that we should always try to strive for. A lot of it's for physical health and like dance, or, you know, a level of discipline, things like that. But, as long as you're doing those things, it's okay if, if yours looks different than someone else's. That's actually what's good about art, is it can be your expression.
[00:26:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I personally have had the privilege of watching you dance and dancing alongside you. And I have to caveat to anyone listening to this--Emerson is a gorgeous dancer and seriously through whatever differences or even if you would consider them, you know, limitations or whatever you would consider them-- you have always shown a level of artistry and care with your technique and your expression that I think is really special. And so, yeah, to anyone listening, I just want to make sure they understand that Emerson is a fantastic, fantastic performer. And I didn't know about a lot of the health issues that you had to deal with, but I wouldn't have known from your technique either.
[00:27:12]Emerson Mertens: Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I, I did, I tried really hard, so I appreciate that. And I, I have to say also that's one thing I've just always admired about you and I just love about you as a person, is every time we worked together, we worked together in three different companies and in different ways. So we've worked together quite a bit. I always loved how that the people are what's important to you, and that makes such a difference. You see everybody's individual, their heart and their passion and their love for what they do. And you, you encourage that. And that I've just always loved that. Especially as you've been a director of VidaDance, your own company, and a teacher, that's just something I really admire. So thank you for doing that.
[00:28:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And I know we we're on such the same page and we resonate so much, but yeah, you're absolutely right. It's about the people and the people have to come first. It's--you're taking care, especially when you're leading in any capacity, whether that's as a teacher or a choreographer, or really, even as a fellow dancer, you're taking care of somebody else's soul and heart, and that's a huge responsibility.
[00:28:28] Emerson Mertens: Yes.
[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah. Wonderful. So I'm curious-- you've kind of, I had mentioned at the beginning, and you sort of touched on it too, that you started dabbling a little bit in other, well, not just dabble, you do this professionally as well-- you started by, I guess, maybe dabbling in drawing and graphic design. And so how has that been a different expression for you?
[00:28:52] Emerson Mertens: Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I, wow, where do I start? It's, it has been different than the performing arts. Obviously it is a different, type of art, but I see so many, so many similarities and a lot of-- I often, I see that my expression in graphic design and, and drawing. I have that same kind of joy that I do when I'm on stage and performing and everything. So it's, it's another wonderful way of expressing feelings and ideas and, and just the beauty of the world and everything. It, it does sort of translate in the same sort of way as the performing arts does, it's just a different avenue and I have loved how I've seen more graphic art and, and videography, and everything's sort of come together with the performing arts world, especially over the last year. There's been a lot of that because we've been home and we've been seeing more on the internet and everything. And I think it's really cool to see the two worlds kind of collide and combine in that way, in ways that I haven't really seen as much before. So I love being kind of in both worlds there. And then also seeing them come together.
[00:30:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for all of your insights and your heart for the arts and for the world. I think that's really incredible. I was wondering if it's okay to ask you my three questions that I like to ask my guests?
[00:30:37] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely.
[00:30:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:30:47] Emerson Mertens: Okay.  You have such great questions. I love these questions. Art, I think, it's so many things. It's, it's kind of hard to pinpoint an exact definition, but I think what stands out to me the most is that art is really a form of communication. So it has that ability kind of, like I said earlier, to connect people. And it has a way of touching people that I think a lot of the normal ways of communication can't always do. So it's a form of communication with others. And I think it's also a form of self-expression, which is, in a way, essentially sort of another form of communication because we're communicating what we think or feel ourselves to others. So I think that's really true of any kind of art, whether it's dance or music or painting or, or graphic arts--it's essentially communicating some idea or feeling, or even maybe an entire story. Like in the case of dance, a lot of times it's an entire story. It's communicating that to the viewer or listener in, in that artist's own unique way. And that can be a really powerful thing.
[00:32:03]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes, absolutely. Perfect. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?  
[00:32:10] Emerson Mertens: I am a Christian, so I believe that God has gifted us all with unique talents and things that we are especially passionate about to really share with the world. So I think for me, the most important role of an artist is really to share truth, hope, and beauty through my art. And that may look different depending on the type of art or the topic. It might not always be obvious on the surface, but I think that at least one of those things usually lies at the heart of nearly everything we share as artists. So to give an example of what I mean, an artist may create a piece that reflects a very difficult subject. So it might not really be positive or, or joyful in the presentation because of what that subject is, but there might, there may still be that truth that can be learned from that or a spark of hope that's conveyed to the audience. So no matter if we're painting a picture of colorful, pretty butterflies in a field, or I'm choreographing a dance about a really hard struggle like anxiety or loss. I believe that as artists, we should always try to look for those opportunities to bring that truth, hope, or beauty into our art in, in a way that really highlights the meaning and the purpose behind it.
[00:33:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. And amen to that.  I love that. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And inclusive simply refers to an artist who puts something out into the world and includes some context behind it, whether that's, it could be as simple as a title, it could be program notes, it could be a description. It's just some context, versus exclusive being when the artist puts something out there and doesn't provide context. And then basically then at that point, it's up to the  audience or the viewer to come up with their own thoughts.
[00:34:37] Emerson Mertens: Sure. Yeah. That's, that's really important I think to, to think about as an artist and speaking from my own personal experience, I'm, I'm one of those people that, when I hear a song on the radio, I like immediately go to the internet and try to figure out like what the artist was thinking behind it, like their, their idea behind why they wrote the lyrics that way to everything. So I really like knowing the meaning behind things. And I think it's important sometimes to know that intent behind the art, because if something's just completely abstract to us, then we might have difficulty connecting with that art. And it might not have that same personal impact on us as if we did know more about it.
[00:35:22] But then at the same time, I also believe that there's a place for subtlety and art. So those little details that maybe aren't fully explained, but they still have meaning behind them because if everything's explained upfront, then we might lose some of that personal connection to the art because we can't connect personally, maybe with that, with exactly with what the artist is thinking. So, sometimes the subtlety, those little subtle elements can be poetic and profound to us as the viewer or listener. And that really speaks to our own individual experiences. So I guess I sort of land somewhere in the middle of exclusive and inclusive in art. I think it really depends on the type of art and the story that an artist is hoping to portray that should really lead them more one way towards exclusivity or the other way towards inclusivity and how they choose to share it. But overall, I generally think it should be a little bit of both in most cases.
[00:36:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense to me. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you again so much for just being my guest today. I really appreciated your insights and your honesty, and sharing just what helped you basically become who you are and the way that you approach your art. And so I just want to say thank you so much for continuing to create and finding creative ways to dance and to teach. And, and again, maybe it doesn't look quite the same, but I think that that's something to be celebrated. So thank you for continuing to share art with the world. I think that what you do really matters and it really makes a difference.
[00:37:15] Emerson Mertens: Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. I was so glad to be on. I love what you're doing with this podcast. I, I love learning more about all kinds of different artists, and I just think everybody's experience really can, can help us see all kinds of different things that we may have never noticed before. And I just, I love that. So thank you so much for having me on and having me share my experience.
[00:37:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I completely agree with you and thank you so much to everyone who has listened to this episode. I really appreciate your support. And I hope if you're feeling as inspired as I am, if you wouldn't mind just sharing this episode with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:38:02] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:38:12]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told, for listening to the episodes, and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you.  I do the whole podcasts myself, from the interviews themselves, to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment, and then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast. Even a very small monthly donation, like $5 a month, would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the Artfully Told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors. So everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

Episode 026 - Alden Miller

In this episode, I welcome Alden Miller! Alden is a filmmaker and the founder and owner of Alchemy Film Company. He talks about his inspiration to go from sharing fiction to non-fiction stories, and about his passion for encouraging the next generation of filmmakers and artists. 
 
Get in touch with Alden Miller: https://alchemyfilmco.com/ | www.instagram.com/kcfilmmaker | www.instagram.com/alchemyfilmco | https://www.facebook.com/alchemyfilmco 
Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Get a free audiobook through Audible!  http://www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
 
Episode 26 - Alden Miller
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Alden Miller. He is the founder, owner, and filmmaker extraordinare behind Alchemy Film Company. And thank you, Alden, so much for being here today.
[00:00:53] Alden Miller: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I would love to hear a little bit more about you, sort of how you got started and maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself, if you don't mind.
[00:01:05] Alden Miller: Sure. So Alden in a nutshell. I live here in Kansas City now, but I spent most of my time, I lived in Wisconsin and that's where I grew up. I went to school for film, and eventually after that, I had some internships in LA. So I did that for about a year or so. Life brought me back to the Midwest. And so I came back here, ended up getting a job for PBS. And, yeah, I was there for about 10 years and I said, "See you guys. I can do this on my own." And I left them to go do my own documentary type work.
[00:01:39] Lindsey Dinneen: That's very cool. And so what made you start to get interested in filmmaking in the first place? What prompted that?
[00:01:48] Alden Miller: So, well, definitely, well kind of, you know, I'm aging myself with this story, but so I went to the theater when I was senior, senior in high school. I think I ended up going to see a movie in the theater, ended up seeing it like seven times in the theater, which wasn't that common to do--maybe it's, I don't know if it's still common to do it all, but-- and I'm seeing it a bunch of times just because it kind of blew my mind of what, how it was presented. And so, I mean, the movie was "Pulp Fiction." And so, as a teenage boy, of course, you know, I love the guns and the violence and all that stuff, but the non-linear storytelling was the thing that kind of blew my mind. and so then I was like, "Oh my God, like, you can do that?" And so I really liked that, you know, in the future, I find out that he stole that from Japanese storytelling and they did it all the time. But, that was very cool. And so that did that. I kind of switched gears completely because I was a complete science nerd, and I just decided to do that. I was still going to school kind of doing the science-y thing, but halfway through freshman year of college, I just said, "Yep. You know what? I'm just going to go do movie stuff."
[00:02:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. So some of these internships that you had in LA, were they for more of feature-film type movies, or were they--how, how did you switch to documentary making from, you know, your initial interest?
[00:03:14] Alden Miller: Yeah. So when I started film school, I, you know, I went in like every other person that goes into film school, 'cause I'm going to be the next Spielberg, right? So that's what everyone else wants to do. Or maybe, you know, who's that guy-- the guy who did the Batman movies, maybe Chris Nolan is the, is the popular guy. But, so I went in to do that kind of thing, was still kind of into the feature and the narrative type storytelling. And when I left, when I ended up coming back to PBS or fast forward to PBS, documentaries were more on my radar, obviously, because they do a lot of documentary work. And so I was learning like the ins and outs of it. Still doing short films of like,  a narrative scripted nature. And then when I kind of went out on my own, I was meeting people that were doing amazing things, and stories that needed to be told that no one knew about. And, you know, it was kinda funny that these people are out doing things, and their stories were much better than the stories that I was making up, or my friends were making up, that we were telling. And so I'm like, these stories need to be told. The world doesn't need another zombie movie. You know, they should learn about this guy that was finding water in Africa with the use of an iPad that had no wifi. That's pretty amazing. Those kinds of stories kind of stuck with me, and I felt that was a little more valuable with my time.
[00:04:39] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. And so your work with PBS sounded like it kind of helped launch your own company eventually, or, you know, a little bit was the inspiration or led into it. But when you stepped out on your own, what was that like? I mean, that's a, that's a huge step forward.
[00:05:01] Alden Miller: Yeah, it was. Well, the funny thing is, is that I just had a kid and I was like, "Hey, we have new baby. Well, you know what I should do, I should probably quit my job and start a new thing." To do something silly like that. But when I did it, I was kind of, you know, doing it, I was planning things out. 'Cause I, since I've moved to Kansas City, I was been there for, you know, eight, 10 years or so. You know, I've, I found my own networks of my own connections and stuff like that. I had three different kind of production houses or whatever kinda just told me like, "Hey, you know, if you, if ever need more freelance work or whatever, like I got your back, like I will send you work." And I know I have to take that with a grain of salt, but I had three or four different companies telling me that I'm like, "You know what, now's the time. Like if one isn't doing it, like then maybe the others will do it."  I will have work for me. That first year when I went on my own, no one ever called me. That was a good time. Yeah. So, I just leave it kind of like a little bit of a, a word of warning, but not to scare people away from doing what they want to do.
[00:06:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it's yes, stepping out on your own, especially if you feel like there's a lot of support upfront, sometimes doesn't pan out quite in the way that you think that it will. So, but, but then you meet other people and you have other clients that become attracted to you and all that. So it works out. Yeah. But yeah. So now, okay, so you've had your own company for now how many years?
[00:06:33] Alden Miller: She's over five. Okay. All right. So just say how old my daughter is. So there you go.
[00:06:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Easy to remember. Okay, so seven years. So when did you start feeling like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can definitely do this." I mean, obviously you can do the work. I don't mean it like that, but being out on your own and developing your company in addition to doing your work, which is a whole other thing.
[00:07:00] Alden Miller: Yeah. I think in year 10, I'm going to be coming into my own there.
[00:07:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Fair enough.
[00:07:05] Alden Miller: I mean, a couple of years, like every, I mean, every year it gets bigger and better. So first year and the first year was like, wasn't even like an official year. Like I went on my own, like in May or June. And I kind of considered up to December that first year. So like the first year was, pretty much sucked. The second year was, got a little bit better and just, you know, step-by-step just getting better, making less mistakes is really the key. Because I made pretty much every mistake you could as a small business and, yeah. Yeah. It's much more about the business than it is about the art when you're doing these kind of things. And that's what they never tell you.
[00:07:41] Lindsey Dinneen: That is so true. That is so true. Yes, indeed. So, but back to your art, what are some of the moments that really stand out to you, or stories that you've been able to tell that really stand out to you as like, "Wow, I'm so glad I got to be a part of that."
[00:08:01] Alden Miller: You know, it's tough because I don't-- nothing jumps ahead of me like this, this particular story here. You know, when I worked with PBS, I guess one of the climax of the PBS was, we did a story on World War II veterans in Missouri. So we went and interviewed all the living World War II vets that lived in Missouri and told their stories. So it could have been a Marine that was, stormed Ujima. It could have been a Rosie Riveter. It could have been, you know, someone in the Navy, you know, and just kind of put all those stories together and made one documentary. So that was very cool. And that probably was one of those things that really cemented or got my eyes on documentary work. Just seeing those stories and kind of put that on the radar. As far as my own, own things, like nothing specifically jumps out. I just really like telling the next story. You know, one of the things--like I am a filmmaker, but really I'm a storyteller. Film is just the avenue that I choose to tell stories, because it's the best way to, in my mind, the best way to get the story told. But I mean, if all cameras broke, like magically broke one day, I would be the first to run around with some crayons and start drawing things. I really don't care what medium it is, but you know, story or video is just what is obviously out there. So that's what I'm using.
[00:09:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so we've been using the term "documentary" a lot, but when you do your filmmaking, how long are these average films that you're doing? I mean, are you doing full length documentaries mostly or are they smaller kinds of works or both or?
[00:09:40]Alden Miller:  So what I'm doing, what I'm playing with a lot now is more series-based. So, running time-wise, it might be a hundred minutes or beyond, but it's in smaller chunks. So maybe like five minute episodes, or 15 or 20 minute episodes of something that, you know, is a 13 part series. And so you get to tell--like, it's almost like your own little TV series where you get to have the middle, the beginning, the middle, the end, which I find is really cool. I think the series and the shorter form is the way to go.
[00:10:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Very cool.
[00:10:15] Alden Miller: I mean, assuming that you want eyeballs on your stories, so, you know.
[00:10:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And so now, who is your typical client? Is it a business? Is it an individual? Is it an artist? What do you normally see?
[00:10:30] Alden Miller: I'm attracted to kind of inspiring stories and stories that I feel are going to change the world, or need to be told. And a lot of those people tend to be startups, and/or nonprofits. And so those are a lot of my clients. I do have some other mainstream clients, you know, because, you know, you need to pay bills, but the ones I'm really, you know, get excited about are kind of the really, in my mind, the cool stories that I feel need to be told.
[00:11:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you talked about storytelling earlier and I absolutely agree. I think you have a very particular knack for that--but then it's great because you have all the skills needed to put that into a film--but back to the storytelling aspect, I heard you speak one time about the power for a business, the power in storytelling. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about that?
[00:11:29] Alden Miller: Sure. One thing. So one of the, what I was talking about then was, well, the importance of telling the, telling your story on your terms. You know, you're being the steward of your own storytelling instead of letting others talk about you, kind of like a word-of-mouth thing. Like people talk about word-of-mouth being very positive things. Especially in business, like, that's my marketing, my word-of-mouth. Like everyone's talking about me! But it, as long as they're talking about you the way that you want them to be talking about you, you basically have to tell people how to broadcast you out there. And so, you know, for example, like if, if there was a restaurant where, you know, you're telling--Person A is telling Person B like, "Hey, I went to this restaurant last night. It was awesome. It's crazy! Like, the servers, the cooks and stuff like that, they're all like ex-felons or ex-convicts like, they're just outa, they're just outa jail. And then like, you know, they serve your food, you give them their credit card and like run away and come back."
[00:12:22] Like, you know, I don't know if Person B is going to be very excited to go to that restaurant. They're like, " Who's my server?" Because they had that image in their head. Now, if you explain it in a different way and you kind of show what's going on, you tell their stories of like what was going on in their situations, of more of the story behind who these people are, and get their whys and things like that. It's, it becomes a very inspiring story and you learn about the purpose of the entire cafe and why it was there and stuff like that. And so that gets people excited. And then they'll probably end up checking that out as a restaurant, for example.
[00:12:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Absolutely. And it's, and then when you're controlling that narrative, you're able to talk about the redemptive qualities and share the purpose and the mission and why it's so important. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's really cool. Well, do you have any particular projects coming up that you're really excited about, and I'm sure you can't go super far into the nitty gritty details, but anything in particular, that's really exciting you these days?
[00:13:26] Alden Miller: Well, I'm wrapping up a big one, which I'm pretty excited about, and I'm also equally excited to be wrapping it up just 'cause I'm ready to go do something else. I'm kind of in my own little flux period myself. And so my own storytelling and branding and stuff like that is going to be changing a little bit. And so, you know, hopefully, hopefully that's, that's done. And it's a very exciting thing. Like just thinking about those kinds of things kind of excites me, because I'm kind of a nitpicker type thing. And so I'll just, you know, sit there and tweak things 'til the end of time, so that part of the business part, it's kind of exciting going on. The art stuff, as far as different projects, there's a couple of things on the horizon because of the day and age of where we are as a nation now, it's kind of transformed my business. And so just different ways to tell stories is kind of the, is the challenge and the excitement now.
[00:14:18]Lindsey Dinneen:  Absolutely. Yeah. It really, definitely having to adapt to the times, that's been a running theme amongst all the artists that I've been talking to lately for sure. Yeah. Well, so I'm curious, and I'm sure you've dealt with this before in the past, but you know, traditionally or historically, the Midwest hasn't exactly been known for a lot of filmmaking opportunities or at least not the place that you would venture to for it. So how, how has that changed over time and what do you see as being a good thing about being here versus say in LA?
[00:14:57] Alden Miller: So, yeah. So the thing about, the good thing about being here or being in the desert or being in the mountains in Montana or something like that, is that the stories that you live through day in and day out, that you feel are boring, are stories that LA can't tell. And so if you are an aspiring filmmaker, for example, or something that you want to, you know, you want to go do the film school thing and go do your thing and get your stories told, the best thing to do is just to go out your front door and start. Turn on your camera and start telling the stories, because your unique point of view is what is going to sell you. And your stories, because everyone is telling the same exact story in Hollywood. You know, there's only like five narratives going on and they're just being told over and over and over. And everyone, everyone knows that. And at the same time, everyone loves those five stories. So every time that story sells, I'm going to go to the theater, just like everybody else. But,  to get out there, you have to be unique. And the easiest way to be unique is to show where you live.
[00:15:59]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that. With that, I feel like something that I've observed about your work in particular and kind of who you are as a person, it seems like you do a lot of mentoring-- maybe not formally, sometimes formally--it seems like you bring interns in, and help them learn to sort a lot of on the job training and things. But can you speak to that aspect of what you enjoy or why that's important to you?
[00:16:25] Alden Miller: Yeah. it just feels like it's important to keep the knowledge flowing sort of thing. There's some people that talk about it is your, it is your duty to, like, send the elevator back down sort of thing. Like if you, after you've made it, you send other people down. I, by no means I'm thinking I've made it, but I do like seeing that we're fanning the flames of people being interested in any kind of creative endeavors is probably the best way to describe it. I used to try to fan the flames or throw gasoline on places where I thought there was fire and it doesn't work out very well. I'm taking a little bit of a step back waiting for more initiative to be happened on the other side. But, yeah, mentoring is important, I believe it helps, it makes you be a better artist as well, just so you understand the concepts and things. I find enjoyment in teaching things. And I, I guess I'm pretty decent at it, so I like to do it.
[00:17:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then, so sort of along with that, what kind of organizations are you personally involved in that kind of help your creative side come out and also maybe sort of share and, inspire others as well?
[00:17:39] Alden Miller: Yep. So, here in Kansas City, there's a number of different groups that help filmmakers out there. I'm on the board of a couple of them. I currently happen to be the President of the Independent Filmmakers Coalition here in Kansas City. It is a 25-plus-year old organization that's been out there, and making films and showing people how to make films for a while. And it's a good place for a lot of people that come in. There's basically two types of people that come in. There was the person that, they're finding it in their twenties or thirties, and it's a nice artistic outlet for them. And they don't want to, they're not really interested in making filmmaking their vocation. They just want to do it for fun. There's also the younger people that come in, like they happen to find out about it. And they're about to go to film school or they're deciding if they want to go to film school. And so they're trying this out and getting some stuff under their belt before they go off to another school. And then there's some people that are just, they're just to connect with other filmmakers and that's where a lot of the mentoring takes place, I guess, just showing people the ropes. I talked to a lot of people's parents about whether Billy should go to film school or not. 
[00:18:50] Lindsey Dinneen: And one of the things that I personally have really admired about that organization is that you all are very collaborative in nature. And I think that that's really, that speaks to the strength of the organization and the people who are involved--but one particular aspect that I really like, in fact, it's how we first met is through-- and you had a great name for it--but basically artists would meet filmmakers. Obviously we're all artists, but different kinds of artists would meet filmmakers and those stories would be told at the Kansas City Fringe Festival. Can you share more about that whole process?
[00:19:32] Alden Miller: Sure, so, and ironically, it just kind of like 90% of those stories are documentary. So it's kind of funny that, you know, those are another one of those things that, telling stories about other artists in the area, whether you're a painter or a sculptor or a dancer or tattoo artists, you know, whatever kind of artistic things that are going on. It's just, it's just good to see other arts being displayed, I guess. And a lot of times those people don't have access to get their story told in that venue or that type of media. And so doing that is just, it's kind of a fun, it's just a fun, little collaborative thing for all the different artists in Kansas City to all work together.
[00:20:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It's a really neat opportunity. And I hope in the future that it will continue when things get back to slightly normal, because it is really interesting. And I, one of the things I've always appreciated about the Fringe Festival in particular is how artists are supporting each other across mediums. And there's, there's not like a, "Oh, you're, you're a filmmaker and I'm a visual artist." Or, you know, that doesn't exist. And I think that's really cool about how supportive artists are of each other. Okay, so when you are talking to, let's say a parent, maybe their teen is there too, and you're in, you're trying to give some advice. What do you think is the most important thing to share with them when it comes to--like, what would you tell me if I wanted to maybe pursue this?
[00:21:02] Alden Miller: So the, my biggest thing that I talk about now is that everyone--and this is, you know, I'm sure you've heard this-- this story or this phrase before is that, you know, everyone has a camera in their pocket now. And so there is no excuse. If you want to go tell a story and you wanted to go make a video, like there is nothing holding you back. You know, when I started, I was running around with a film camera-- well, first I was running around with like one of those VCR shoulder-pack things. I went to school, ended up running around with a 16 millimeter camera and you're literally cutting film to piece it together to make your edits. And now we're talking about shooting stuff on your phone with an app and it's done in a minute. There's really no excuse. And so, which is good because you're taking away all the barriers, all the technical barriers. So people can go straight to creativity, and that's pretty much what technology is going to help us do in the future here, is going to make it more and more seamless for us. So we can be telling stories in a much faster and more organic way.
[00:22:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, I do have a few questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're okay with that.
[00:22:11] Alden Miller: Mhmm.
[00:22:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Cool. Okay. So the first one is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:22:18]Alden Miller: Art is presenting whatever is in your head out to the world. It's like your mind's eye just kind of like showing it, you know, "Hey, this is what I'm thinking about, or this is what I'm feeling or showing."
[00:22:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:22:38] Alden Miller: The showing or expression of the art, because it does no good for it to be in your head, in your head alone.
[00:22:46]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And then I'll define my terms a little bit for my final question, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And by inclusive, I'm referring to an artist who puts something out there and they have a little bit of context behind it, whether it's a title or program notes or something, versus exclusive, meaning the artists just puts their work out into the world and then doesn't necessarily put any context behind it. So it's completely up to the viewer what to interpret.
[00:23:21]Alden Miller: So I believe that,  from a film point of view, once the filmmaker is put the film out there-- you know, they've told them, they've written their story, they've shot their story, they've edited the story, they've done everything they can possibly do to get the story told in their mind-- and so it's out to the public and it is what it is. And you know, the public can take it for whatever it is, I believe, and they can interpret how they want, and whether that's right or wrong, like, I think the artist really just need to shut up and just let people think what they want to think about a certain thing. And if they don't like the way it has been interpreted, well, better get better next time.
[00:23:58] Lindsey Dinneen: About communicating exactly what you want to communicate essentially. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. All right. Well, is there a way for people who went to follow your work or, you know, see some of what you've done, is there a way for them to connect with you right now?
[00:24:16] Alden Miller: I think Instagram's probably the easiest way to get ahold of me, and that is @kcfilmmaker and @ @alchemyfilmco is the web address for that.
[00:24:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for being here today. All I really appreciate it. It was fun to hear your journey and how it's kind of morphed and changed over time. And I appreciate you sharing your perspective. So thank you again. I really appreciate it.
[00:24:44] Alden Miller: No problem, I hope, I hope it was entertaining.
[00:24:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Very. All right. Well, and thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you would share it with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.
[00:25:02] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:25:12]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners when you sign up for a free trial membership. You'll have 30 days to decide if Audible's right for you and you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audio book at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again. that's www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners.

Episode 025 - Crystal Tiehen

In this episode, I welcome Crystal Tiehen! Crystal is an intuitive health and wellness coach, as well as an artist who refinishes and repurposes furniture. She shares how art has played an important role in her life and journey from a difficult past to a healthy and vibrant future. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of one of the pieces of furniture that Crystal refinished!) 
 
Get in touch with Crystal Tiehen: www.crystalineyourjourney.com | www.crystalineyourlife.com | https://www.facebook.com/Crystaline-Your-Life-100378194657490/ | https://www.facebook.com/Crystal-Tiehen-Coaching-472918096439001/ | www.instagram.com/crystalineyourlife 
Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Get a free audiobook through Audible!  http://www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
 
Episode 25 - Crystal Tiehen
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.
[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so very delighted to have as my guest today, the absolutely lovely Cyrstal Tiehen, and she is the founder and creator and coach behind Crystaline Your Journey, which is a fabulous name based on your name, my dear. I love it. But thank you so much for being here today, Crystal. I'm so excited to have you.
[00:01:01] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you so much for having me. This is, this is a lot of fun and it's, and it's an honor.
[00:01:07]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, absolutely. Well, I would love if you would share just a little bit about yourself and maybe your involvement in art.
[00:01:15] Crystal Tiehen: Yes, absolutely. You know, I live the entrepreneurial life. Crystaline Your Journey was very intuitively called to me, if you will. And I am an Intuitive Wellness Coach, so I help people access emotional and spiritual freedom through an intuitive and spiritual approach. But that's not all I do. So, you know, very interestingly enough, art, if you will, creativity, is such a huge component to really choosing change because it is a choice and allowing transformation. And so what I chose to do, for my creative outlet, and what I encourage many of my clients as well is finding a creative outlet, but we'll talk a little bit about kind of a branch of Crystaline Your Journey that's Crystaline Your Life. That is my furniture art company. And I own an online franchise where I've partnered with a liquid wood technology that creates ease for design and repurposing and transforming furniture. 
[00:02:30] Lindsey Dinneen: So cool. So how'd you get started in that and what are some of your favorite pieces that you've worked on?
[00:02:38] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah, absolutely. You know, this is just kind of something that I kind of had a passion for. I've been doing it for about 10 years and without getting like too sappy, all of us have had different, you know, lived a different life, walked a different journey. And, you know, 10 years ago I was in a very, very different space. I was in a toxic relationship and abusive relationship, and what furniture art was for me in that time of my journey, and in that season of my journey was meditation before I even really knew what meditation was. You know, using a paintbrush, watching the paint change a piece was--it's transformative. It actually brings tears to my eyes right now that I think about it, because it led me, it let me be just me in that moment and not having to answer to anything else that was going on in my life. So very powerful space to be in. And I didn't even realize the relevancy of it to be perfectly honest. And I mean, sometimes it would take, sometimes it would take a month for me to get a piece finished, just because, if there was an altercation or if there was a conflict that happened in my home life, you know, I'd go downstairs and I'd sit with my paintbrush and sometimes I wouldn't even paint. So it was, it was therapeutic. I found therapy. Yeah. Yes.
[00:04:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And then, you know, that's an incredible story and thank you for sharing that, but then what's so neat to hear too, is that now you're doing this for other people, you're transforming something that they might not adore as much anymore--it doesn't match or whatever--and then you're giving them a new experience with something too, which is really cool.
[00:04:42] Crystal Tiehen: It's like, it lights me up. It lights me up to be able to, if you can imagine it, I can create it or I can show you how to create it. That's another beautiful aspect of choosing this as a creative outlet is this is something that I engage in, and practice in on a very regular basis. And so to share that with others, to share something that lights me up is an expression of myself. And I think it's so important that we express ourselves because when we suppress our expression, that's when fear can set in. That's when doubt, that's when worry, you know, you don't have fun. You know, we forget how to have fun. We forget to have joy in our experience and our process. So, yes. Thank you for, thank you for speaking to that because it's, it's an absolute joy to be able to be a part of that for people.
[00:05:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. What a unique gift that you have and can share! I just love that. Yeah. Well, and so, yeah, and so what kinds of art, obviously you've done a lot of painting and things like that, but what other kinds of art have you explored over your life so far?
[00:05:58] Crystal Tiehen: Wow. That's, that's a very interesting question. I mean, I have not done much in regards to like painting like on canvas and that sort of thing, but, you know, I really remember like getting into, I really enjoy coloring or even drawing mandalas. Like, that's always been something that I've enjoyed doing. Anytime I had a birthday or anything like that, that's what people would buy me. They buy me those mandalas that you can color in and create patterns with and mandalas are circular and speak to, you know, things always moving in time and not necessarily on a straight trajectory. And so, very powerful symbolism there that again, throughout my life I didn't know the significance of, so I've always been highly interested in that. I always remember my mom would take me to Creative Candles. I feel like that was very much a creative outlet as well when I was younger. So I don't know if you grew up in Kansas City, but Creative Candles used to be like this thing for like kids growing up in the eighties and we would go down, they would give you white candles and you got to dip them in all kinds of different colors of waxes and all kinds of stuff. And so that was always a lot of fun. That was definitely something that is brought to mind when it comes to the artistic view.
[00:07:32] And, I've always enjoyed coloring. The shading of it, being able to create dimension, dynamic-ism, if that's even a word. I do, I do remember I won a contest when there used to be Miners in Brookside. I don't know if anybody remembers that store, but it was a grocery store and it was called Miners and they had a contest to win a scooter. And it was a coloring contest. I entered it and I won. So I was 17 years old. I was young. I was really young, but I always enjoyed it. And I even enjoyed a little bit of drawing. I'm not so good with freehand, as much as like being able to look at something and recreate it. Thanks for asking.
[00:08:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I'm always so curious because I know most of us have at least dabbled in a few different forms before maybe settling on one that really speaks to you, but that's so fun.
[00:08:37] Crystal Tiehen: It is.
[00:08:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:08:38] Crystal Tiehen: And I love your, I love your creative outlet and, and how you shine for people as well!
[00:08:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. So in your coaching, you talked before a little bit about being an intuitive coach and health and wellness and all that. How does art play a role into how you coach or, or does it play a role in, in any of that?
[00:09:03] Crystal Tiehen: Oh, absolutely. There's--depending upon where people are at in their journey, and what they're opening up to, what they're tuning into--that we're, we're such multifaceted beings. So we really have very many different facets of ourselves. And when someone is, is kind of stuck, or doesn't feel like they know how to pick their style or has questions about really being able to tune into the transformative process. Furniture art is something that I teach, I coach and really show that it can be therapy. You can really move through your emotions and open up to things that need to be seen in order to create transformation not only inwardly. But of course, you know, you're learning a skill set to create outwardly as well and let that expression come into reality.
[00:10:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And do you find that the clients that you work with are open to expressing themselves through art or is it sometimes a struggle depending on whether they feel like they can do it or not?
[00:10:15] Crystal Tiehen: Oh, it's definitely very interesting to watch how--you know, I, I work with the psyche and I've been intuitively studying this stuff and frequencies and vibration and really just an energetic approach. And when we are faced with doing something that is, we don't know how to do, it can be, it can be very challenging. And, it really is incredibly supportive to have someone to hold that space for you because you sometimes go back into, you know, get triggered and go back into spaces where things like this might have happened to you earlier on in your childhood and that sort of thing. So it really can be emotionally transformative.
[00:11:09]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, as you think back over either working with clients or your own experiences, are there any particular stories that really pop out to you as being, Wow. This is a moment to remember as having had an interaction with art and just how that kind of made a difference to you or your clients or anything like that?
[00:11:37] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah. I have an intuitive design therapy program that, you can find it crystalineyourlife.com, but I also work with the overall understanding of emotional intelligence and emotional maturity and spiritual connection. And I think probably the strongest, most beautiful results or side effect, if you will, with art and connecting art and self is really being able to tune into your higher self, tune into that higher version of who you are to become. Being able to, you know, see yourself limitless, being able to, to use your imagination in ways that you didn't know you had the capability of doing so. I don't have any necessarily anything specific to say to what a client experienced, because it really is different for every single one of us and our journeys, but being able to hold space for ourselves and for each other, that's really what's going to evolve us as humans and as beings.
[00:12:58]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And so do you have any upcoming projects that you're particularly excited about or that you're working on as far as either the furniture side of things or your own projects and things?
[00:13:15] Crystal Tiehen: I mean, I'm always, you know, shaking and moving and grooving. I have quite a few projects that I've been doing that I'm going to be updating my gallery with. My gallery is on my website. And there is, I'm in process, it's still being kind of worked out with everything, you know, that we have been challenged with with COVID and stuff like that. But hopefully I'll be doing some classes here soon, collaborating, doing some classes for the liquid wood technology that I sell and that I promote. It's absolutely amazing because it literally will virtually turn any surface into wood, any hard surface into wood. And so you can stain it. You can grain it. There's so many different ways and combinations of using the different colors and the different stains. I mean, it's just, for me, it's like limitless. I, I just throw stuff on there and see what happens. And it always comes out very beautiful, but nothing to say that is specifically in place currently with dates or anything of that nature, but definitely a lot in the world.
[00:14:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Excellent. And so are there any,  I know this is probably a difficult one to answer, but what is your favorite or maybe favorite couple of pieces that you've ever worked on that brought you even more joy because they were special in some way?
[00:14:45] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah, absolutely. One of them is a piece that I totally need to redo again, because it was one of my very first pieces. And it's probably been about 10 years since I've touched it, but it's, it's a two piece,  I think it's kind of like an armoire. It doesn't have the doors on it. It's just open. It's like what you would put in a dining room, like a shelving unit. That piece was probably the very first piece that that really showed me, "Wow, Crystal, this is, this is something significant. This is something that you've transformed and is now you can put into your home and feel good about it." Back then, there wasn't a lot for me to feel good about. So, so being able to, you know, find and allow something to let me feel good, was very powerful. So now I have what, so it's a two piece hutch, if you will, without doors on it. And one of the taller of the pieces sits in my Retique It room, which is liquid wood technology that I carry. And I have, I have all my Retique It stuff displayed on it and looking beautiful. And I have Retique It all throughout my house. And then the other part is in the room where my dogs stay and it has all my plants on it. So that's probably, that's probably the piece that brought me peace, if you will.
[00:16:19] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Well, I think you also touched on something really important and that is that, you know, at a time in your life when you said there wasn't a lot to feel good about to be able to have this outlet to help get you through and to feel proud of something that you created that's beautiful, that's yours. I mean, there is, that's not just an isolated thing, although I think you have just a really powerful story, but I mean, in general, that's the power of the arts, I think.
[00:16:52] Crystal Tiehen: Absolutely. I think you said that very beautifully. I think that's why it's so important to have a creative outlet.
[00:17:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because there are seasons of life--I mean, gosh, especially now where it's tough and having something that you can do that brings you that joy is just so important. So. That's so cool.
[00:17:15] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you! Yeah, you know, and it's also brought me through to, you know, all, all of the, you know, steps that I have taken on this journey, spiritually, emotionally, but also creatively. And, you know, being able to connect with the CEO of this product that I now am partnered with and get to be involved in, in all the creativity of it. I mean, we have, we have product that comes out on our line on a regular basis. I mean, I have customized colors and there's so many things that are in play and that really give me that permission. I give myself the permission to play, to have fun, to feel creative. And when I don't win, when I'm down on myself, when I start feeling depression, because even though I'm a coach, that still can creep in every once in a while. Because I live in a, a lot of uncertainty, like a lot of us do, especially these days. And so when I am feeling that I know exactly what I can do to, to pull myself out of it, to relieve myself, to show myself self-love
[00:18:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Beautifully, beautifully worded there. So if you were to give somebody advice, maybe somebody who would be interested in starting something like what you're doing just for fun, you know, on the side, is there anything in particular that stands out to you as, as a takeaway that you would say, "Well absolutely make sure blah, blah, blah."
[00:19:04] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah. Let me think about that. I mean, I think it's important. Okay. I think it's important to be intuned and aligned and feel empowered through the inspiration that you choose. There's so much influence out there, so much influence, and it really depends on where you're at in your journey. So really, who do you listen to, and who do you pay attention to, and who do you choose to give your money to? And, you know, in order to really be able to engage and, trying this out, you know, and that choice to, to explore being creative. So I think the advice would be--really be aligned and tuned in to who is giving you that inspiration and what you're going to do with that inspiration.
[00:20:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. All right. Well, I do have three questions that I love to ask my guests, if you're okay with that.
[00:20:12] Crystal Tiehen: Well, of course!
[00:20:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, perfect. So the first one is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:20:22] Crystal Tiehen: Art is a creative outlet. It's an emotional support. It's, it's a way to give ourselves permission to be a child to bring fun into our life, to not have to be so serious all the time and, and really be able to explore that childlike facet of ourselves. And even if it's not childlike, just being able to, to bring something that only you have created into this world. That's what art is.
[00:21:02]  Lindsey Dinneen: I love that, great answer. All right. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:21:10]Crystal Tiehen: You know, it's interesting because I wouldn't even call it a role. I believe we are all artists because we are all co-creators. This is a belief system that I, I choose to really lean into is that we are all co-creators. And so having it as a role is something to say, I'm going to prioritize this. I'm going to prioritize the fact that I have the capability to be creative. I have the capability to be an artist and, and really being able to open up those doors for anyone that is willing to embrace it.
[00:21:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive, and inclusive refers to an artist to incorporate some kind of context behind what they share with the world. So whether that's as simple as a title or it's some history behind it, or kind of just basically context. Versus exclusive referring to an artist who creates their work, puts it out there and leaves it entirely to the interpretation of its audience.
[00:22:37] Crystal Tiehen: Hm. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tune into this one real quick. This is a deeper question. I think that our love for art is a lost art and there is a connectivity to loving oneself and creativity and choosing to embrace what art is here to be, what art has, is gifted us to be. So for it to be inclusive or exclusive, it is, I think it is up to the soul. I think it is up to the soul and when we can release any, any necessarily specific identification, it being inclusive or exclusive is when we can really support the artist for exactly who they're choosing to be.
[00:23:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Very nice. Thank you for that. That's a different perspective than I've heard before, and I absolutely love hearing different perspectives. So thank you for that. All right. Well, if anyone wants to follow your journey or connect with you, is there a way for them to do that?
[00:23:56] Crystal Tiehen: Absolutely. I have many different ways, but crystalineyourjourney--that's crystaline with one L-- crystalineyourjourney.com is my intuitive coaching site. And then crystalineyourlife.com is my online website, where you can find all the paints, all the liquid wood, all the fun stuff that will let you start kind of playing around and seeing what is part of your journey. And then you can find me on social media. I'm on Facebook, under Crystal Tiehen Coaching, but I'm also very present, just with Crystal Tiehen. So you can always find me there as well. And then on Instagram is @crystalineyourlife. 
[00:24:40]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And I would definitely encourage our listeners to check out her websites. I have gotten to see some pictures of the furniture that she's created and it's stunning. It's so much fun to see creativity. Yeah. And the beauty of what all that. So definitely go check that out no matter what. And, if you need any intuitive coaching or any  furniture that just might need a fresh face, Crystal is definitely your girl.
[00:25:18] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I do custom work. So like I said originally, if you can imagine it, we can create it. So, it's always a good thing to spice things up, to freshen things up, to clear energy.
[00:25:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, definitely. All right. Well, thank you so much, Crystal, for being with us today and thank you, especially for sharing art with the world. I think that when you're willing to do that, that you really do make the world a better, more beautiful, more inclusive place. So thank you for sharing your art. I really do appreciate it. And thank you for being here.
[00:25:59] Crystal Tiehen: Yes. Thank you for having me. It's truly, like I said, it's really was an honor and, I really appreciate it.
[00:26:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. So much fun to talk with you. Well, if you are feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if our listeners would just share this episode with a friend or two, and thank you so much for listening as well, and we will catch you next time.
[00:26:25]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
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Episode 024 - Helen Ransom

In this episode, I welcome Helen Ransom! Helen is the owner and photographer of Faces You Love Photography, and she shares about finding her niche, building her business, and what she loves the most about her job. (Fun fact: the cover image of this episode is one of Helen's photos!)
 
Get in touch with Helen Ransom: www.facesyoulove.com | www.facebook.com/facesyoulove | www.instagram.com/facesyoulove 
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Episode 24 - Helen Ransom
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I am delighted to have, as my guest, the lovely Helen Ransom. She is the owner and photographer extraordinare behind Faces You Love Photography. And she is joining us actually from her studio today, which is super cool just down the road from my house actually! A little trivia. Thank you so much, Helen, for joining us. I really appreciate it.
[00:01:04] Helen Ransom: Thank you for having me, Lindsey. And I'm thankful today for a quiet studio that I could escape to.  Lindsey and I met a long time ago when you started dancing in the same company that my sister is in. So we've had a few little run-ins here and there, but then got reconnected on a more personal level through Polka Dot Powerhouse. And I loved having you in the studio for headshots recently, and kind of working together and collaborating on that. And now I'm just so excited to be part of your podcast, cause I've never done this before.
[00:01:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Wahoo! I'm so glad you're here. Yes, it was such a blast to being at her studio. She has the cutest little studio. She's so good at making everyone to feel at ease. And I mean, I was laughing at myself a lot because apparently my posing needs some work.
[00:02:01] Helen Ransom: No! Stop it. You were great. You were great.
[00:02:05] Lindsey Dinneen: No, it was a great time. But yeah, so, Helen, how did you get started in photography? What sparked all of that for you?
[00:02:11] Helen Ransom: You know, it's funny. I, people ask me this all the time. They start with, you know, "Well, how long have you been in business?" And, and you know, "How long have you loved photography?" And, and my earliest memory of really loving photography goes all the way back to when I was probably nine or 10 years old. And for Christmas, I really wanted a camera and I didn't need a big camera. But of course back when I was nine or 10, it wasn't digital, it was going to be film. And I was so excited when I got this little Vivitar camera for Christmas. And, it was just a lot of fun to be taking pictures of family and my dog and things that were happening.
[00:02:51] And so that really started my love of it. And then, I kind of fell away for a while and then I had kids and I had a really crummy point-and-shoot camera. And I thought, "You know what? I'm being way too picky about these pictures. I need to upgrade." And so I suddenly remembered all of the savings bonds that my grandparents had given me for each birthday when I was growing up. And I hopped online and I looked and they were all mature. And so I marched myself into my bank and cashed them in and bought my first digital SLR camera and started teaching myself how to use it. And that was about 11 years ago now.
[00:03:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. That's a such a great story.
[00:03:36] Helen Ransom: I love that my grandparents have such a part in it and I always bring that up to them on Grandparents' Day. And I'm like, "Hey, just to remember, shout out to my grandparents." And my grandma is the only one still around, but you know, I always give them a little shout out. I'm like, all those little savings bonds you gave me every year for my birthday when I was a kid, kind of propelled me into this career that I never would have dreamed I would have, and it's changing my family and it's changing other families when they have beautiful portraits. And it's just really special. I love that. They helped me get my start and that wasn't even the intention back when they gave me all those savings bonds.
[00:04:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's, that's beautiful. What a great story. So, okay, so you started to teach yourself how to do photography professionally, but what kind of let you, or what made you decide to take it from-- not that it was necessarily ever just a hobby--but you know, from more of a hobby to a professional career, essentially.
[00:04:38] Helen Ransom: You know, it, it wasn't really my intention. I have a background in radio. That's what I did. It was my big interest all through high school and college. And then my early days of, being married and out on my own, and then I had kids and I wasn't going back to work, and I got this great camera and started messing with it and teaching myself how to really do things well and actually use the camera in the mode it should be used in. And friends started noticing that I was doing pretty well and taking pretty great pictures of my own kids. And they started asking me if I would take pictures of their kids. And so, so when I had a year where I had three different families asking me, "Would you take pictures of my kids?" And one of those families said, "I'll even barter you for it. We have a big chest freezer sitting unused, and you have lots of kids. Would you like said chest freezer in exchange?" So that was basically my first paid gig was I did pictures and they gave me a chest freezer and I was like, "You know what, Nick?"--I talked to my husband-- I said, "Nick, I think maybe I need to look into this." And so he said, "Why don't you talk to your friend, Jennifer, who is a photographer and has been in business and see if she thinks you're ready?" And so we sat down and she said, "I think you're ready, Helen. And here's what you need to do to get started. "And.The rest is history. That was nine and a half years ago now.
[00:06:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. And so is there any particular niche that you feel is something that you absolutely love or are--I know from  experienc-- you do a whole wide variety of things which I love, but is there one thing in particular that kind of captures your heart?
[00:06:32] Helen Ransom: You know, it's funny. I, so I go back and forth. Like if you had asked me two years ago, this question I would have said, "I just want the babies. Give me your babies." I want to do nothing but newborns and babies and the families that come along with them. And I am good. But then a year ago, I, I had moved into this new studio. I had a lot more space to do inside work, and another photographer kept encouraging me to branch out and add in headshots, but not just like your boring headshots, more fun headshots, as you experienced. And so I've been doing that for about a year and I get such a kick out of that too. Mostly because so many of the headshots I do are of women.
[00:07:26] And, you know, we women do not like to be photographed. We are not a fan of seeing ourselves up close in those ways. We are so self-critical. And so I get such a thrill now, now out of doing a headshot day and having woman after woman come in, and I can tell they're apprehensive, and I can tell they are not excited about this, but they feel like they have to do it. And then they look at their pictures, and they aren't even edited,  cleaned up, you know, made the right brightness and contrast, and they get excited about seeing themselves. And that is so gratifying to me, and also to my hair and makeup artist. She loves it too, of seeing these women kind of transform in front of us and get so excited about a portrait of themselves. And so I would say I equally love now the headshots with these women and the babies. I still really love the babies. Keep giving me the baby.
[00:08:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. And we'll share some contact information at the end, but definitely, if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't yet seen her photography, definitely go check it out because yeah, the baby photos are so adorable. I can't handle it.
[00:08:43] Helen Ransom: They kind of steal the show, honestly.
[00:08:46] Lindsey Dinneen: They do. They do. They're just so cute. And she's got all of these props and little accessories and all sorts of things to just make it so fun. And it's just the most precious thing ever. So do you still do, or have you done much wedding photography, or are you kind of more in the sort of, you know, family portraits and?
[00:09:07] Helen Ransom: You know, I have done, I have assisted at one wedding and I have photographed a second wedding. And I think you were even maybe at or in that second wedding, I don't remember. It was a long time ago.
[00:09:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
[00:09:21]Helen Ransom:  And yeah, and I loved the day of, because who doesn't love a wedding, I love a wedding, but it was really stressful because there is so much pressure to get it right. And what if my equipment fails or something goes wrong with my card? And then I am not going to lie. I was bored to death with the editing of the same faces for so many days, because you take a lot of pictures of the wedding. And after I did that, I said, "You know, I could've spent the same amount of time photographing eight to 10 different families, and then I'm at least editing other faces and it's probably gonna work out to about the same amount of money." I think, you know, weddings just are not for me.  I'm going to let other photographers who rock at weddings  continue to roc aet weddings, and I'm just not going to do those.
[00:10:18] Lindsey Dinneen: I think that is completely fair because you just found what you love and you stick to it. I mean, it's, that makes complete sense to me.  So I'm just curious, are there any photographs that really just sort of stand out in your mind that you've taken that either have a story behind them, or just the moment just had something that really like--if you could pick a couple of favorites--what, what would that look like?
[00:10:46] Helen Ransom: So I have a couple of favorites that weren't necessarily a favorite to me, but I know now that they are a favorite to the family, because somebody in that portrait has passed on unexpectedly and knowing that that family treasures that photograph, because it is a beautiful memory of their loved one. It's life-giving to me to know that they have, that I was able to give them that. So that's a huge thing. And that has happened several times over these, you know, nine plus years in business. But then there's others. Like, so last year I started trying to branch out and get into photographic competitions, like really big deals where they're actually harshly judged, not the popularity contest, vote for my picture, who can get up the biggest social media presence. And it's been fun too. Last year when I entered, I just entered pictures I'd already taken of clients. This year when I entered, I put thought into some of my entries. Like I was like, what kind of story can I tell with these pictures? And, and because of COVID, all of the competitions got pushed. And so pictures that should have been judged a couple of months ago, they're still accepting entries right now in those contests.
[00:12:08] And,  I won't know how they're judged until probably a month from now, but one of those pictures in particular, I really put some thought into and I am so excited to see how it does in judging. And even if it doesn't do well, I'm totally going to post that sucker because I think a lot of people are going to resonate with it, but I had a mom come in and I said, "We're going to make you look more tired than you usually are." Because most women, when they come in and do a picture, you want to look good. Right? That's the whole reason I have Kim here doing hair and makeup is to make us not look so tired and look like our best rested selves. And I said, "When you come in, we're going to do the opposite. We're going to enhance those dark circles. We're going to make your hair look a little greasy and messy because you haven't had time for a shower. We're going to let your toddler look like they are drawing on the walls in the studio." We're like, we're going to do some stuff here.
[00:13:11] The scene, I had a plant tipped over. I taped up white paper to the wall in the studio to run into the white walls already here so that her toddler could draw on the paper, but it looked like he was drawing on the walls. We had a dirty diaper balled up on the floor, and I planted mom on the floor next to her baby, just sitting there. And I gave her an empty coffee cup and I was like, "Just stare. Like stare into space. Like you were just exhausted. You have had the longest day. I am done." And I love the way that picture came out because it tells such a story. Now I feel like everybody's going to look at it and be like, "Oh, it's a portrait of a COVID mom. I took that picture before COVID but. Let's just be clear here. I feel like I need to keep saying, I took that picture like two weeks before COVID was a thing and shut everything down, but everybody thinks it's just a portrait of a COVID mom. That's fine. Whatever, but I love that picture and I am super excited about it. And I've been holding it until contests are judged before I put it out there. Just so that, it doesn't ever get back, 'cause you want it to be anonymous in judging, and I don't want it to somehow get back to judges who took it, but I'm really excited to share that picture later this year and let people see what it looks like.
[00:14:34] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Oh, how exciting. Well, I'm definitely rooting for you. That's that's really exciting. Of course, of course. So one of the things that has always been kind of challenging, I think, for artists who turn maybe what was a hobby into a career, sort of how to price that? Is that something that you've... how, how did you go about that? 'Cause I know that can be a challenge.
[00:15:00] Helen Ransom: It is a challenge because when I started out, I started out like I think a lot of artists do of  I'm just passionate about this. This is fun for me. And I want people to have beautiful pictures and, and I'm going to price myself really low because everybody should have these beautiful things and I'm just passionate about it. And if I make a little money, it's a great perk. And I think a lot of us fall into that trap because it's easy to do because we do, we start out, and we're so passionate and excited. But then about four months in, I was working ridiculous hours trying to edit and turn pictures around for people. And it was routine for my husband to go to bed at 11 and say, "Are you going to bed?" And I'd say, "No, I have to get these galleries edited," and I'd be up until two or three in the morning. And he finally said to me, he said, "This can't continue like this. You, you have to fix something, 'cause we can't keep doing this." And I did the math and figured out that with all the hours I was putting in, I was making about $5 an hour.
[00:16:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!
[00:16:06] Helen Ransom: And I thought, "Wow, I could be making more money at a fast food restaurant." And I wouldn't be working as much and I thought, "This isn't going to fly." And so I started just guessing and raising the prices a little bit. And then later, as I've progressed through the years and the career, I thought, "You know what? I invest a lot of my time into this." And yes, this is a gift that people love. They want this beautiful portrait of their family and their memories, or they want this, you know, amazing baby picture, or a fantastic headshot that's going to land them that next great job. But I also, I invest a lot of my time and energy and a lot of my resources into this. And this is more than just pushing the button. There's a lot more that happens here that the client's not here for, and I should be paid for that and I should be profitable. And it's a hard line to walk sometimes because we feel badly charging for a talent we have. When to the person, you know, the viewer, the recipient, whatever they feel like, you know, for what they saw, I didn't, it didn't take me that long. And I think they think that about, you know, dancers and people who paint or do pottery. Like they're just seeing the end product. They're not seeing all the blood, sweat, and tears and money that goes into it at the end.
[00:17:40] And so it's a battle. And I feel like in the last couple of years, I've really come into that of owning that this is my price and yes, different than other photographers, but I have a different cost of doing business. Maybe I've invested more time and money into developing my skills and maybe I just, I'm putting out a superior product. And I know that, and it's up to me to say, this is what I do, and this is why it's really excellent and fantastic, and why you should choose me. But I have to make peace with the fact that some people don't place the value of the same level as I do, and that's fine. They would rather spend their money on other things. And I have to make peace with that and be okay with it.
[00:18:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And those clients are probably not your dream clients either. I mean, it probably goes both ways.  Something that I've admired about you, getting to know you a little bit better, is that you are constantly learning. You're not just saying, "I got it all." Even the other day, you know, you posted something about how excited you were, you learned a different editing technique, and I thought, "You know what? That is so cool." You're not just complacent and say, "All right, I know everything."
[00:18:54] Helen Ransom: Yes!
[00:18:54] Lindsey Dinneen: You know.
[00:18:55] Helen Ransom: No, I think it is really important to be constantly as artists, whatever genre you're in, trying to improve against your past self. It's really easy sometimes to get caught up in comparing ourselves to other artists in the same genre. And that's a dangerous place to be. I had to unfollow a whole lot of photographers for awhile on my social media channels, because I was getting too wrapped up in, their pictures are better than mine. They're doing more business than me. And a lot of times it's a lie anyway. But it's a lie we tell ourselves and we can get wrapped up in it. And so I had to be really good about that. And then focusing on "No, how can I better myself from where my pictures were or where my business was or what my plan was even six months ago, how can I make it better?" And so I'm constantly looking for ways that I can improve against my past self.
[00:19:51]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love that. Yeah, your only competition is yourself.
[00:19:56] Helen Ransom: Really! It should be that way.
[00:19:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Absolutely. Well, I'm also curious, how it was to transition from-- you know, you are still basically a one-woman show, with Kim, who's a fantastic makeup and hair artist, as well. But to go from sort of working just by yourself, in your home or out of your home, to now having a brick and mortar studio--how was that transition? 'Cause that's, that's a big step forward.
[00:20:25] Helen Ransom: It was a really big step forward. And so when I moved to having a studio, it was a much smaller space and it was a little bit sooner than I had originally anticipated doing, but a great space opened up and I knew I had to jump on it when I could. It was really fun. It's funny though, because I heard all these great stories about photographers, who say, "Oh, as soon as I moved into a brick and mortar studio, I had so much more business. I had so many more inquiries because they feel like you're a legit photographer." I didn't experience that at all, which was a big disappointment I had to get over quickly and realize, okay, just because I have a brick and mortar studio doesn't mean business is going to fall into my lap. I still need to hustle because kansas City has a ridiculous number of photographers for how many people are in this city. It is insane and having the studio was wasn't the magic solution for getting more business, but having the studio pre-COVID was really great at helping me draw more boundaries so that I could leave work at work.
[00:21:35] And I didn't have the constant temptation to edit late at night, or edit through dinner while Nick and the kids were eating, and I was somewhere else editing on a laptop, and it forced me to leave work at work. Now I'm struggling with do that again with COVID and I've pretty much moved all of my editing time back home, so that I can be home to monitor my kids now doing distance learning and all these things. And so it's a little bit harder again, and I'm having a hard time struggling with that balance. So I would say that's been one of the biggest things, though, of having the studio is forcing me to have that balance, and scheduling things the right way to keep that balance in check. It's a nice perk to have when I can utilize it the way I like to utilize it.
[00:22:21] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. What a great way to use the space too, as establishing boundaries for yourself and for your work. So that's just something that entrepreneurs across the board, whether they're artists or not, I feel like that's just a struggle of when to stop working because you've got to hustle, but at the same time, life is going to keep trickling by and you're going to miss it if you don't have those boundaries. So yeah.
[00:22:49] Helen Ransom: Exactly. It's, it's such a struggle. It's just hard because you feel like if I don't hustle, there's nobody else hustling for me.
[00:22:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.
[00:22:57] Helen Ransom: If I don't do it, it's not going to get done. And if I don't reply to this new inquiry, they might move on to somebody else. And so I've had to be really strict with myself about not answering emails on the weekends and not answering business texts at 10 o'clock at night. They can wait until the morning, but it's, it's a hard, fine line to walk.
[00:23:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely true. Oh my goodness. Yes. Okay. So are there any particular stories that stand out to you either through your own business or through observing other art that just really resonate, that kind of stick in your mind as this moment to remember?
[00:23:35] Helen Ransom: There are a couple of times I have had clients come in to look at their pictures and I do it in a really unique way. For regular portraits, where I print everything and I put them in mats and I put them all on one wall in my studio. And so when parents walk back through the door a week or 10 days after their session, they're greeted by a wall of their baby or their family or their high school senior, or, you know, it was just time for an update on their kids. And I have had several times, times where the session ends itself and kids are kids and they aren't behaving like perfect angels, which they shouldn't. It's fine. They're kids, they're small people. They can't handle it. And mom is convinced it was a terrible session and I got nothing. And then she walks in and sees this wall full of beautiful portraits and cries because she is so happy. And she is so in love with these pictures of her babies. And it's just, she will say, "You just...it's them. Like that is their expression. They're always like that. I can't believe you got that smile out of them." And I love when I have to hand a box of tissues to mom, because she is so elated, and in love with these portraits, it is the best part of my job. I love the shoot day, but yeah when I can watch that first reaction of a parent coming in and seeing that wall and being in awe, especially if they cry, I feel like I've done my job.
[00:25:15]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. What a funny way of articulating it. I totally, I'm onboard with you, but this is so funny. If I can make a client cry, I've done my job.
[00:25:24] Helen Ransom: Yeah, I've totally done my job! And it's great for one of those headshot session days that Kim and I did back last winter, and one of those women was, "Ahh, you know, it's just, I feel awkward and I don't love pictures of myself." And she was really thinking she was not going to like anything. And I think she was thinking in her head, "Helen, I'm not going to like any of these. We're going to look at them, but I'm going to make you go back out there and we're going to do some more." And we looked at, I think it was probably the fourth or fifth picture in, and she literally jumped up off the couch in excitement because she loves that picture of herself so much. I can make a woman do that. And women are so self-critical and we don't like pictures of ourselves. And I made her jump off the couch because she was excited about this picture. Again, I have done my job.
[00:26:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That is fantastic. Wow. Oh, my word, I love that so much. Well, you have a very particular way of capturing, like bringing out something that I think, especially as a woman, you don't even know about yourself necessarily, and then you have a way of just, coaxing it forward. And then all of a sudden the results, you think, "Wow. Where did that come from? Yes. I love this." Yeah. Yeah. That's really neat. So what's on the horizon for you? I mean, this is a strange time of life for everyone, but do you have any kind of big things coming up or anything like that
[00:26:57] Helen Ransom: I would say just the biggest thing that I'm, well, I mean, right now I am just trying to plug along and keep the business surviving this weird, weird year, because I still have clients who don't feel a hundred percent safe, coming out and doing a session even though every precaution is taken. I am wearing a mask the entire time, whether inside or outside and precautions are taken, but some people just aren't comfortable or they lost jobs or were furloughed for a while and they just don't have the money. And so right now I am a hundred percent focused on maintaining the business so that it survives and sees the post-COVID world. But post-COVID, I am already looking ahead about a year and a half from now. And the next Faces You Love dream is to be able to purchase a building, and have my studio in a very permanent place and not have to do this renting office space from somebody else. That, that's the ultimate dream. I would love to purchase a building. And so I'm starting to save so that I can hopefully make that happen in about a year and a half.
[00:28:04] Lindsey Dinneen: That's so cool. All right. I'm excited about that.
[00:28:08] Helen Ransom: It's kind of a big, scary, audacious dream, but nothing's going to happen if I don't dream big dreams. So I'm going to go for it.
[00:28:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. I love it. Oh, that's so exciting. Well, I will be eagerly watching that journey unfold. Oh, excellent. Excellent. Yeah. Well, I have three questions that I like to ask my guests. Is it okay if I go ahead, and dive in? Okay. Wonderful. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:28:41] Helen Ransom: I have learned over the years, having a sister who dances and having my mom who loves nature photography and myself, I prefer the people side of things. Art is a lot of things to me. And art is walking through the Plaza Art Fair and admiring all the different mediums. And art is watching my sister dance and seeing the way that storytelling can happen that way with no words and just movement. And art is the beauty of nature and the majesty of creation. And art is a smiling toddler, or a mom rubbing noses with her sweet baby. It's all art and it's beautiful. And to me it describes humanity and the world we're living in.
[00:29:35] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's beautiful. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:29:44] Helen Ransom: I think it's storytelling and it's trying to capture that moment, whatever that moment is. And, and the role of the artist is to tell that story the way they see it. And, you know, so for me, it was like that competition image that I've entered of the mom who was just done with the day and trying to capture that in a way that maybe people who, you know, if some men could see that be like, "Oh, that's why the dishes are still dirty when I come home, because she's done. She's done what she can to keep the kids alive." And I think the role of the artist is just to tell that story and to draw attention to things in the world.
[00:30:29] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive meaning that when the artists presents something to the world, they have a little bit of context. I mean, a title, it could be as simple as a title, or it could be program notes or some explanation of what the artist was sort of envisioning, versus exclusive being a little bit more, the artist creates something puts it out and doesn't really provide any context. So it's kind of more only up to the viewer to determine what they will with it. If that makes sense.
[00:31:10] Helen Ransom: Yes. And I will say for me personally, I enjoy viewing art and having even a tiny bit of context, even if it is just a title so that I can start to then use my own imagination to go with what they were looking for here. "Cause I think a title even can convey a lot and help draw the viewer down the path that you were hoping they would go. So I am a fan of inclusive, and having at least a tiny bit of context included.
[00:31:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm curious, so with your photography and granted--most of what you do is for the family so like a title wouldn't be needed--but when you are submitting to contests and things like that, do you provide, is that part of it, providing any context, or is it just, this stands alone on its own?
[00:32:04] Helen Ransom: So it's interesting. So there are two big photography competitions that I enter. And last year, both of them, you had to include your title and it was only a title. You were not supposed to provide another description other than just titling it. And this year, one of those competitions remove the title option and it kind of irritated me because I thought, "No, but my title really goes along with the portrait and I want it to help you understand, you know, that this is the direction I wanted you to go with it." The other competition still does want a title. And the title I've been told from judging is very, it's very important. How you title your image is important. So for those situations, yes, I do have to type it obviously for a family portrait. I don't title anything. They just get their picture.
[00:32:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, I was just curious because yeah, I mean, when it's for a private viewing, they know who they are. Right. But right. I was just thinking in context of like, if you were to do a gallery or something like that, you know? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which actually brings up a question: in your building, would you have a gallery?
[00:33:21] Helen Ransom: I don't know! I might if I had enough room. I think it would be fun to have rotating gallery of local artists, having things hanging there, you know, and do different themes or, or whatever. Or if somebody had a whole set of things, I think that would be fun. It's it's an interesting thing to dream about, depending on the size of the building I can afford.
[00:33:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Exactly. Well, while we're dreaming big, we'll just make sure it's big enough for that.
[00:33:48] Helen Ransom: We might as well, really.
[00:33:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, Helen, first of all, thank you so very much for being here with me today. I really appreciate it, but I would love to know if there are good ways for our listeners to get in contact with you if they're interested in your photography or just to chat or whatever, is there a way for them to do that?
[00:34:07] Helen Ransom: So, yes, I would love that. So my website is facesyoulove.com. It's all spelled out. And then you can also search Faces You Love on Instagram and Facebook. So those are all great ways to get in touch with me. My studio is in South Kansas City, but I am happy to also travel to people's homes. And hey, while we're talking big, crazy dreams, I know there are destination wedding photographers. I would love to be a destination newborn photographer. I'm just gonna put that out there. I think that'd be amazing.
[00:34:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes! Oh, how cool would that be?
[00:34:42] Helen Ransom: I know! So, yeah. So those are your best ways is just to search Faces You Love and I'm it. So you're going to find me that way.
[00:34:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Excellent. Well, again, thank you so much for being here today and thank you also for giving your gift to the world. I think that when you do embrace something that you love and you make it your profession, or whether you just create for the sake of creating, I really believe that that makes the world a better, more beautiful place. So I want to thank you for sharing your art and, and for being here.
[00:35:21] Helen Ransom: Thank you so much for having me, Lindsey. I appreciate the opportunity.
[00:35:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And like I said, please definitely get in touch with Helen. At least peek at her photography. It is so incredible. Her, her newborn photos are my favorites, but she's a very versatile photographer and has a lot of great content and I know you're going to love looking through it. So definitely do that.   Well, thank you again for listening. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you share this episode with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.
[00:35:56] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
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Episode 023 - Lantz McDonald

In this episode, I welcome Lantz McDonald! Lantz has dabbled in many different forms of art over the years, and shares about how art has been a constant in his life, regardless of the ups and downs. He discusses how abstract art, in particular, has spoken to him, and how one art form can inspire another. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is a photo of Lantz, taken by him!)
 
Get in touch with Lantz's pick for his favorite local artist to support: https://oddesy9design.wixsite.com/bmiremadiart 
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Episode 23 - Lantz McDonald
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:08] Krista: Artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to have on my podcast today, my friend, Lantz McDonald. Lantz and I actually met through my husband. And gosh, now it's been probably--what--like six years, I think?
[00:00:53] Lantz McDonald: Yeah, somewhere around there.
[00:00:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so Lantz  has his day job. And then he also has this fantastic, creative side to him too that comes out in all sorts of different artwork, and I am just so excited to have him on the show specifically, because I think that his particular take on art is really unique and special and his artwork is really cool. And so thank you so much, Lantz, for being here today.
[00:01:25] Lantz McDonald: Yeah. Thank you. That was, that was a really nice compliment. Thank you. Yeah, it's kinda surreal to be here. Thanks for having me on.
[00:01:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, of course. Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about kind of what started your dabbling, so to speak, in art. 'Cause I know you've kind of done a little bit of a variety. So what kind of prompted you?
[00:01:47]Lantz McDonald: I mean really, I just think it's, it kind of built into my core maybe.  I have had a really interesting relationship with art as a whole since I was a child that it's kind of been this, like this, for lack of a better term, like a best friend, that's just kind of been around when I, I need it. And, it's been kind of a rollercoaster of relationship too. I guess just to start, so just to, to give a premise for my experiences since childhood-- so, just a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with autism. And, I didn't know, I'm 33 now. I didn't know for, you know, 30 plus years, that I was on the spectrum. And so as a child, I didn't really like music.  I didn't really see the point in it. And I'm talking like, I dunno, like five, six plus years old.  And, it had partially, it was partially to do with, you know, how what home I was raised in and the ideas around that. And, eventually, I kind of branched out and discovered that there was, you know, music outside of the small bubble, and really fell in love with it. And I wouldn't say that it was like the start of my creative side coming out, but it was definitely an important part.
[00:03:02] And, I guess from there I started drawing, took a bunch of different music classes over the years, nothing stuck. I'm terrible at instruments, just the worst. I did eventually learn to play drums and, after trying piano, violin, clarinet, guitar, bass, the triangle, probably--I don't know-- the drums actually clicked with me. And I played that for a few years, nothing serious or anything. And, for your listeners, I'm sure it'll be quite the pattern, but I just kind of dabbled in it. And, from there I, did some canvas painting for a couple years. I did some sculpting, I guess, a few years before that. I think as I'm learning about myself over my lifetime, I just like to accumulate skills and learn different things, as broad of a statement as that is. I just want to, you know, experience everything and art is a huge part of life. It's in so many different facets that I don't feel like most people even realize. So yeah, it's with me and art has been kind of an up and down thing, and I dive real hard when I dive, and sometimes I get back out of the water for a bit, but I'll be sure to dive in with something else again, too.
[00:04:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and thank you for sharing your story. I think that, yeah, it's so cool to hear how art can-- I actually love the way you put it-- it can be your best friend that comes along through life's ups and downs. And the great thing about art is that, I mean, you might judge it, but it doesn't judge you back.
[00:04:51] Lantz McDonald: Yes, exactly.
[00:04:53] Lindsey Dinneen: You know? And so just having that outlet for what you're feeling and what you're going through is awesome.
[00:04:59] Lantz McDonald: Absolutely.
[00:05:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I like it. Yeah. So at this point, so you mentioned music, and you've done painting, and you've done sculpture and things like that. Is there one of them that you feel was the best creative outlet, or do you feel like--like you've said you dabbled in so many, so is it sort of like what's needed in the moment?
[00:05:24] Lantz McDonald: That's a really good question. I think it's a yes to both. I think for your first question, I think the one that's maybe touched me the most was my drum kits. But the problem with that is when you're growing up in apartments, it's not exactly conducive to having happy neighbors. So,  I do plan to eventually play drums again. I'm just kinda in the mix of some different stuff right now. It seems like I always am. But, but to your second question. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, life has a lot of ups and downs and there's definitely room for art in those ups and downs, but I guess for me more so, it's art has really made a connection with me and I've really tried to discover my creative side and the limits of that. And, and the sadder times, or the more angry times or, you know--a friend of mine who works with children told me there's no such thing as good and bad feelings. There's only comfortable feelings and uncomfortable feelings. So I guess in that context, I come to art almost as a reflex, I guess when the uncomfortable feelings come up.
[00:06:42]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's such a great way to think about it because it removes the judgment from it. It's simply, it is comfortable or it isn't comfortable. And yeah, that gives you a lot more permission to explore that without a judgment.
[00:06:59] Lantz McDonald: Exactly. It gives you freedom. And that, I mean, what isn't in relation to art than freedom?
[00:07:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Exactly. Awesome. Well, as far as your paintings go, I personally have gotten to see some and I think they're really cool, but is there any sort of theme that kind of has run through? 'Cause I remember there were a few that seemed like they were connected, you know, different artworks, but kind of maybe within the same general theme or landscape per se or whatever. Do you tend to work in like sets or is it just whatever strikes you?
[00:07:37] Lantz McDonald: It's definitely whatever strikes me. I have a hard leaning towards the abstracts with canvas painting. I guess I haven't practiced that much in a long time at realistic artwork in that regard. But, I do like the abstract, just because more of the, like, being able to, have somebody feel something. I think it's a lot easier to have that happen with something that is more abstract rather than something that is more focused and trying to tell you something specific. I think the more you're able to read into it yourself and make your own ideas about it and draw your own conclusions and feel your own feelings towards it. I think it allows people to have either a more enjoyable experience with art or, have a more meaningful experience with art.
[00:08:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Well, and we'll circle back to that because that, as you know, as a podcast listener, ties into one of my questions at the end. But, so when you go and experience art, do you particularly prefer to experience it for yourself without a whole lot of context? Do you like more abstract art personally?
[00:08:51] Lantz McDonald: I think visually I do prefer the abstracts, but outside of that, I don't really have a preference. I think it's definitely dependent on mood, and a million other factors for me personally. But, I think whatever someone's trying to say, whether they're letting you in with some notes or not, whether, you know, the title of the painting or if it's abstract or not. I think that's for the artist to decide. So I think I prefer just visually the feeling I get from looking at abstract art, but you can have just as much of a connection with something that, it tells you exactly what's going on.
[00:09:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Yeah, that makes complete sense. So are there any stories that stand out to you as far as having--either your own experience with creating art or seeing somebody else's art--that particularly stand out in your memory as being just something to hold on to?
[00:09:54]Lantz McDonald: Yeah. I guess with canvas painting again-- so just a bit of context, and to come back to what we were talking about earlier-- so I grew up in a very conservative home and we went to essentially a megachurch on a regular basis. And my dad was Minister of Music. My brother was very musically inclined. My mom sang in the choir. So, to comment on my complicated relationship with music, at the time I had no idea that there was other kinds of music. Like the radio existed, but it wasn't something that we turned on very often. And, so I just kind of assumed that this was a majority of what music had to provide. And even at a young age, I didn't feel like the music, and really the church as a whole, followed the same kind of beliefs that I had. So it really didn't have a huge impact on me. But then, you know, after discovering, you know, there's more out there, there's more of the world, I fell in love with music. And to tie that into my canvas painting, I had just decided one day that I just wanted to start. Like, I have friends who, painted and I had seen plenty of art throughout my life and, and I just kind of came to the conclusion that maybe I can try this. And, so I did. And, it didn't go well, from my perspective. I drew just a bunch of nonsense and painted just random shapes. And I was just kinda, I guess, trying to figure out what I did know myself and what I could do myself from a jumping off point.
[00:11:36]But, what really got me to open up, and at the time I was very emotionally clogged up, if you will. I had a lot of issues trying to reach my emotions, just trying to, over the years, keep them in. And yeah, the music was what kind of enabled me to start painting in the first place. 'Cause I tried a bunch of different things like meditation and nothing really seemed to let me express myself on the canvas. And, as soon as I put on some music that just kinda matched the mood that I was in, it was just like a light switch, and I just went off. And so most of my paintings are named after songs, because they are an album or an artist or a specific song that I was listening to while painting it. And it's what I feel as I'm experiencing that. So yeah, that's a really good memory for me. Just having this  growth of a relationship with music and having it affect other facets of creative expression.
[00:12:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And I think that that's so interesting and so cool how one art form has inspired another one for you. And it was discovering that that kind of led to you being able to express your creativity through painting. But it was, you know, driven by another art form, which I think is really, really cool. Art begets art, you know, so to speak and...
[00:13:15] Lantz McDonald: Isn't that fantastic?
[00:13:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it's so fantastic! And I love the fact that your titles are named after those songs, and that's what inspires you. I think that's really, really cool. I love it. So, are there any pieces that you've created or painted or whatever that really stand out to you as being some of your favorites? I mean, how do you have this image of something that comes back to you where you go "I like that one. I'm really proud of that."
[00:13:43]Lantz McDonald: Yeah. And just to put it out there, I have verified with friends that it's not egotistical to hang around paintings in your house, but I did that, 'cause I just, I like them. I don't think I've painted something, from start to finish, outside of doodles and stuff that I really absolutely was just disgusted with or anything. Most of the stuff that I have hung up are pieces of mine. There is one, honestly-- at this moment, I can't remember what it's called or what I called it--but, there was one where, and I'm pretty sure you've seen it, has like a black background, and there's just these strings of different colors falling down and up on the canvas. And, at this moment, I can't remember what song it was that I listened to, but it's just, looking at it, it's it's one of my favorites. I really like contrast and that has definitely has a lot of contrast there.
[00:14:42]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I absolutely agree if you, if you like your own artwork, you should definitely display it and be proud of it. That's fantastic.
[00:14:52] Lantz McDonald: For anybody listening, you know, if you like something just, just like it, there's no reason to take other people into consideration.
[00:15:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Very true. And also the reality is I wouldn't have known that you painted if I didn't see them in your house, you know, I wouldn't have necessarily known that. And, and then I was able to ask you about it and discover a little bit more: where did that one come from? Or, or whatever. And so, yeah, it opens up good conversations, so, yes.
[00:15:25] Lantz McDonald: Yeah.
[00:15:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. So do you find yourself dabbling much these days? I know this is a very challenging time of life for probably everyone.
[00:15:39]Lantz McDonald: Everyone, of course. Not much at the moment. I don't know if you really call working on a house art, but I'm doing some more renovations right now, and taking care of my dog who's getting up there in age.  I just listened to the episode with Kent Rader. And he, he's delightful, by the way. I'm so glad you had him on the show.
[00:16:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, me too.
[00:16:04]Lantz McDonald: But,  something that's always been on the back burner, I guess in my brain, has been a stand up. And I have some notes and some just random thoughts written down, and that's, that's about as far as it's gone so far, but it's definitely something I'd like to look into once we're allowed to be within a few feet of each other and compact areas.
[00:16:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That would be amazing. Oh, I definitely think that that would be--you would be very good at that. I can tell.
[00:16:38] Lantz McDonald: Thank you. I don't have a singer's voice and it's not something I've ever really worked on, but I do like the different facets of art and the fact that it can be your voice or your hands or your feet, but I want to dive into something that has to do with spoken word or voice and see what I can learn from that.
[00:17:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, yeah. And you mentioned earlier the fact that you are kind of a lifetime learner, you like to continue to develop your skills. And so, yeah, that's just another skillset that is really good, and I would think very difficult to develop just because it's not even just speaking, it's trying to make people laugh, which is all whole thing. It's all, it's an art form. It really is.
[00:17:27] Lantz McDonald: I do like to speak on Kent Rader again, I do like his methodical execution of it, though. I think it is something that can be maybe not scientifically quantified, but there is like an equation to it, I think. And it's something that you can continuously work on. So yeah, I will see, I'll get back to you in the future when we're all happy and healthy.
[00:17:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love it. Well, I do have a couple of questions I like to ask my guests if you're okay with that.
[00:17:57] Lantz McDonald: Of course.
[00:17:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:18:06]Lantz McDonald: To me, I tried to break it down to the simplest terms that I can, 'cause I had thought about this a little bit before we started recording. I would say it's, to me it's an ambiguous expression. And some, some pieces of art are more or less ambiguous, but at the end of the day, you were trying to relay an emotion and there's nothing unambiguous about that. Yeah, I think it's just people trying to express themselves to other people. We all want to be heard and listened to. And this is just one more way to do that.
[00:18:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I like that. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:18:51]Lantz McDonald:    I think honesty is probably the highest up there for me.  I think that with a lot of art that is deemed not great or not good, it often has to do with the amount of honesty being portrayed. And if your sole focus is to just make a dollar or trying to, you know, slam an idea in somebody's face, it's not going to come off as well as if you're pulling from your heart and expressing yourself with honesty. There's, there's satire and stuff like that, but at its core, it still has an honest or a truth to it. And I think quality of art is very dependent on that truth-telling. So I'd say for anyone who's wanting to be an artist or who is an artist--let's face it, we all are at some extent-- just be honest with yourself and you will absolutely make something great.
[00:19:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, indeed you will. Okay. And then my final question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive. And it does sort of tie into something we were talking about earlier, but inclusive referring to somebody who creates their art and provides a little bit of context, whether that's a title or story or some background...
[00:20:17] Lantz McDonald: Yeah.
[00:20:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Versus exclusive referring to someone creating the artwork and just letting the viewer or the participant or whatever take from it, what they will. So they don't necessarily provide any context.
[00:20:30] Lantz McDonald: Yeah. I would say it is an even split for me, down the middle. I think choosing, 'cause it is a choice, it, that is a spectrum in and of itself. You still have to choose where on that spectrum you land as far as, you know, letting people in on what's going on or not. I think that is an important piece to the art itself to like choosing whether to give the whole story or even a part of it is part of what someone will experience when they experience your art. And,  it's really up to the artist whether they want to let you in on more or not. And that kind of informs the piece itself.
[00:21:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Excellent. Well, thank you again so much, Lantz, for being here today. That was so much fun. Plus, you have so many great insights and I just love it. But I was wondering if there's any way for people to follow along with your journey or do you have any sort of public outlet yet? Or is it just sort of, for you right now and not necessarily for others?
[00:21:39]Lantz McDonald: I am not on social media, like not even a little bit, so I'm a little hard to find, but if I can plug one of my favorite local artists here in case. Her name is Behnaz Miremadi. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name right, but it's spelled a, B E H N A Z. And then her last name is M I R E M A D I and she is a wonderful artist. She does realism and abstract and actually I have one of her pieces hanging up right here. So you should go check her out.
[00:22:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. We will, and we'll post a couple links to some of her work too. That's great. Well, I'm personally excited for the future for you. I'm very excited about the fact that you might do some standup comedy. I'm totally going to be there for that. But again, thank you so very much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. And I'm so glad that, yeah, that you've found, a great outlet for your art and that you're expressing it. And whether that's just for you and it's just going to continue to be for you in your house ,or whether you'll share it or whatever happens, I think it's still so valuable.  And so thank you for creating. I think that's awesome.
[00:23:01] Lantz McDonald: Thank you. And thank you for doing this podcast. I've, I've learned so much about different people I never would have met. And that's really, that's a huge part of this podcast for me. That was the part that I really enjoy is we're not just learning about these people, we're getting to know them too. I don't know, I have a lot of great names that I've been looking into and looking at other people's work and it's, it's really fantastic. So thank you for making this podcast. It's, it's wonderful.
[00:23:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. Yes. It's been my absolute pleasure to get to talk to so many cool people and learn about their journeys and hear their stories and yeah. I love it. All right. Well, thank you all also for listening. And if you are feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.
[00:23:52] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:24:01]Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners when you sign up for a free trial membership! You'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you, and you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audiobook at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again, that's www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners!

Episode 022 - Robyn Jamison

In this episode, I welcome Robyn Jamison! Robyn is a professional artist who is on a mission to share art with the world in a way that is understandable and relatable. She is in the process of writing a new book, "The Magic of Modern Art," and shares about her own artistic journey and what experiences led her to her life's mission. (Fun fact: the cover art of this episode is Robyn's own work, entitled "Red Robyn," which was originally a self-portrait painted in oil!)
 
Get in touch with Robyn Jamison: www.robynjamison.com | robyn@robynjamison.com | www.instagram.com/robyns.modern.art.magic 
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Episode 22 - Robyn Jamison
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06]Krista:  I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.
[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told, and my name is Lindsey and I am so excited to share with you today. I have a wonderful guest. Her name is Robyn Jamison. And she has a true heart for art and for expanding the reach of art to people who might not otherwise have participated in it. And she just has so many great insights to share. She's an artist herself. She has an amazing career. And thank you, Robyn, so much for being here today.
[00:01:04] Robyn Jameson: Lindsey, thank you. It's my pleasure, totally.
[00:01:08]Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful. Well, if you don't mind, I'd love to start just by learning a little bit about you. Maybe your background, how you got into art and yeah, just a little bit more about you!
[00:01:19] Robyn Jameson: Thank you. Well, it really it's more like art got into me than I got into art. I've been an artist all my life. When other kids were playing with dolls and firetrucks and balls-- I mean, I did some of that--but mostly you'd find me huddled over the floor, painting or drawing and making things. So I've always, I've always known I was an artist or that I am an artist. And I was very, very fortunate in having parents who supported that, who supported my love of the arts. I dance, I play piano. I started as a little kid. I played violin, which I hated. So I played what I always wanted to play was the piano, but I demanded dancing lessons when I was three. And, in fact dancing and art and visual art were neck-and-neck in terms of what I love the best. And I realized that it was the most practical thing I've ever done as a young person was I realized that as a dancer, my career depended on other people. I mean, that's true of visual art as well, but I would have to be part of a, a dance company.
[00:02:38] Somebody would have to hire me, or I would have to start my own, and that after a certain age, I probably would be teaching, and I do love teaching, but with art, I knew that I could do it as long as I, my arms would move and my head had eyes to see. So I actually  have continued to dance all my life, but I made my career as an artist. I did art so my parents gave me lots of extra art courses, as well as supporting me in going to art school when I was old enough to go to college. And then later I got my master's degree It was my parents really pushed me to get a degree in art education rather than just a straight visual art degree.
[00:03:26] And at the time I was not pleased about that, but looking back, it was really a gift in disguise, in that when you get a degree in art education, you have to take classes in every kind of art making: weaving, jewelry making, printmaking, everything, which I probably wouldn't have done. So it exposed me to different mediums and had me see what I really came out loving the best. And I've really always been a two-dimensional artist. My work is multimedia. I've done video and sculpture, included three-dimensional aspects to my work, but even when I've done sculpture, it's been pretty much frontal. In my twenties, I had a job. I went through the whole fear of being a starving artist thing that so many people go through and some people never get past, unfortunately. Until I did a really transformational program, but so I, I had a job as a recreation instructor for the city of Fort Worth. And so I had all kinds of classes to teach. I taught piano lessons for the elderly in groups, people who had always wanted to play piano and never had. I taught ceramics for the blind, square dancing for mentally disabled people. All kinds of art, oh, macrame.
[00:04:59]That's interesting as well as other of kinds of dancing. So, and of course, art classes too. And when I did the ceramic classes, they were molded, they were slips. It's called slipcast ceramics. You made, you have a mold and you pour this liquified clay in it. And it starts to dry and it hardens around the edges. And then you can pull the mold off and then you have this shape and you paint it. You paint it with glazes and I hated it. I just hated it. They were, it was, oh gosh, turkey Thanksgiving platters. And, you know, just cute things that were not in line with my taste, but you know this as an artist, I'm sure that when you're immersed in any medium, even if it's something that you didn't choose, you find a way to work with it.
[00:05:59] So after a while I started doing these slipcast pieces and then I would carve on them and, and I started doing these really fun whimsical things. Like they would have, I would do like a night sky with clouds and then carve in rainbows and hearts and all kinds of funny things like that. And people loved them.  I created a business for myself of doing one-of-a-kind slip casts, ceramics, and I started making my own molds and I did that for 12 years.  By the way, I did pins and earrings and stuff to have those little like parrots and hearts with wings and moons with each one had a different face and it was really fun. And then I got into more serious work with where I developed my own method of airbrushing underglazes and using wax to resist where the underglaze went, and then firing off the wax and doing it again, and then firing off the wax and doing it again.
[00:07:02] And I came out with these layered images. They were really more than being traditional ceramics, they were paintings on ceramic and it was really successful. I had them in galleries and they were by commission. I also did jewelry, like these big neck pieces, that multi-pieces of ceramic and big wall hanging things and, and really had a lot of fun with that. And a time came when I started having the itch to do something else and I had always wanted to get my master's degree. I had this-- in my family education was a high priority and I wanted to have the highest degree possible. Plus here's the thing. I was married to an art dealer and yeah, it was good. Yeah. It was really great. He sold all my work. I mean, it was really great in that respect. And we would go to art openings and meet artists and be around artists all the time.
[00:08:01] And at the time I was in Dallas and I started to notice that the people, some people we talked to were saying things about the art that went over my head. I knew they were --it wasn't baloney that they were saying, it was something valid, but I didn't quite grasp it. And I, and I started to ask people who spoke that way about their education, and just about every one of them had a master's degree in art. So I thought, "Yeah, well there's some gold there." You know, not only do I want to be as highly educated as I can in my field, but I also want whatever that is, that they were saying that I wasn't saying. And it is what happened. And when I went back to graduate school, I started out in sculpture because my whole portfolio at that point was ceramics and they wouldn't put me in the painting program. And then later I switched over to painting, which really painting and drawing, which again, it's two-dimensional. It's really what I'm best at and what I love the most to do. So I got my masters in fine art and I got what I was looking for in that respect.
[00:09:12] And while I was in graduate school, I also had the great luck to stumble into an environment that opened up the direction of my work in an unexpected way. And always before that, I was kind of all over the place. I hadn't chosen a direction, really. I could do anything. I could, I could paint all different styles. I could paint all different kinds of subject matter. Never, never really traditional, were more forward-thinking, but I hadn't really got my own thing going, and friends of mine owned a mannequin factory. And I thought that sounded really interesting.  They agreed to let me come and look at their mannequins, to come visit their mannequin factory. They were very lifelike mannequins. They had facial expressions that had expressed mostly kind of somber. And they were kind of creepy in a really interesting way. And I, and I just became enamored of them. And I asked the people if I could come and do photographs, so I came more than one time and spent like a whole day lighting them different ways and putting it together different ways and taking photographs of these mannequins.
[00:10:36] And they became the basis for my work for quite a while. So I started doing mannequins and what fascinated me about the mannequins besides that they were so interesting visually, and also that I always have loved the human figure but I didn't want to just do figure drawings or figure paintings that weren't anything else. What fascinated me about them was that they reminded me of the fact that we tend to attribute human characteristics to things that aren't actually people, like to our pets and to dolls and to different inanimate objects, we'll go, "Oh, that looks like such a happy doll" or, "Oh, it looks so sad."
[00:11:17]And yet we tend to also objectify each other. This is a little bit of a heavy, heavy topic, but if you look at, for the longest time, we didn't operate in our world like people across the globe were the same as us. We would hear about starvation and not necessarily think of it like someone close to us. Like we wouldn't necessarily feel responsible for helping. And I think that's a function of objectifying people that are either different from us or far from us. And I wanted to talk about that in my artwork. So that's part of what I was doing with the mannequins, is pointing at that. And before I left graduate school, I did my graduate thesis of work and I actually used real women and portrayed them as if they were inanimate objects. I made them like mannequins and did a project. And I did a project where I had, there were four women, all of different ages, different heights and builds. And, I did a charcoal drawing that ended up encased in an aluminum frame that I made myself, to look encased, and they were black, all black and white, no color.
[00:12:43] And they were encased and they weren't. And they were sitting to represent that they weren't really empowered. And then I did a painting of each one and on the painting, the women, each woman was standing. And a portion of the interview I did with the woman was transcribed on the painting and there were four of them. And they were legible to different degrees. So I always provide the actual transcript and it was, and then the video took the interviews that I did and had them edited down into kind of bullets. Like "he always talked about me this way," and it was all about relationships. And, so then I made these a video of each woman. It was called "Women as Object."
[00:13:29] And then one more piece of it was actually a loan that I got from a man I know in Colorado. And he made this thing called a metaphaser. He's an inventor and he made this thing called a metaphaser and he let me use it in my show. So the metaphaser, or this thing on a stand, it looks like a a square box with mirrors and lights, and one person stands on one side of it, and another person stands on the other side of it, and the light starts flashing. And if the room is dark, you can see what you two would look like if you were combined. And what I did with it was I put a mannequin on one side, and then you could stand in front of it, line your face up with the mannequin face, and see what you would look like if you were a part mannequin.
[00:14:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That sounds so cool.
[00:14:22] Robyn Jameson: It was so fun. Yeah. And he made those for, celebrities. Ringo Starr has one. Cher has one, I believe. Yeah, they were, they were a thing.
[00:14:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That's amazing. I love the name too.
[00:14:39] Robyn Jameson: Yeah, science fiction name. The metaphaser.
[00:14:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. It's amazing.
[00:14:46] Robyn Jameson: Yeah. So, after I finished getting my master's degree, I moved shortly thereafter from Dallas to Austin. I've been working here ever since. My work has gotten more feminist. A lot of, I should say womanist. I think I liked that better because it's not about a movement. It's about having my work speak to women's concerns and also a lot of really personal work. And when I started, when I was doing my preparing when I was in graduate school, I started using actual text on my paintings and drawings and incorporating words in different ways. And I've continued to do that in most of my work. So that's it on my work.
[00:15:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yeah. Well, you have had an amazing journey and gotten to do so many unique things with your art. Like you said, you've actually dabbled in so many different ones that your perspective is really unique and I think that's really incredible. And I think that gives you so much richness to draw from, because now you're kind of in a, a little bit of a different direction, it sounds like. And I would love to hear you share about the--well, I guess I know a little bit behind-the-scenes--but you're working on a book.
[00:16:08] Robyn Jameson: Yeah. Yes. I have a mission. Thank you for asking about that. I'm so excited about it. I didn't mention that, after I got out of undergraduate school, my first job was as a guard in a museum in a very progressive, modern art museum. And I would listen to what people were saying when they were visiting the museum. And so many people seemed frustrated. And they would say--I'm sure you've heard these things--"My five-year-old could do that. Or anybody could do that, that art." And clearly people were baffled, frustrated--not everyone. And I thought, "Wow, these are the people who are at the museum. These aren't the people who've given up already. And here's what they're saying. They are not loving it."
[00:17:02] And I would look at the same art that they were looking at and be completely awestruck, be thrilled and blown away. And, I could hardly believe my good fortune to be in that museum so much of the time. And I would go and see the same show day after day until it got changed. And even so, every single day was wonderful seeing it. And, I thought, "I have to do something about that." This is there's so much richness here and I know that that everyone can have access to it. I know it. And I started paying attention to other things.  I would ask people questions like, "Well, what do you, how do you think art should be?" Or,  "What is it about that that bothers you?" And what I could hear underneath people's comments was that they had ideas about what was art and what wasn't art, and what was good art and what wasn't good art. The ideas probably started in their childhood. And they just hadn't been exposed or educated beyond that. And we all know that when we're little kids, the school artists, the class artist is the kid who can draw the best. So of course we would think, "Oh, how I know art is good it that it's really well drawn."
[00:18:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.
[00:18:23]Robyn Jameson:   But if you look at, if you look at it, a lot of Picasso's work even, or, or the work now that's, doesn't even have a drawing a lot of times, of course you would think, "Well, that's ridiculous. How am I supposed to be, how am I supposed to appreciate that? It's not good drawing or didn't take a long time to make, or it doesn't have pretty colors." And we've developed our taste from--many, many of us at a really young age and haven't had the opportunity to develop it further.
[00:18:58]Lindsey Dinneen:  Sure.
[00:18:59] Robyn Jameson: So, I started writing a book, and the book is designed to open it up for everyone. And I tested it. I didn't test the book. Although I am testing the book on the person who's helping me write it, 'cause she's not an art person. It's fascinating. But back starting a long time ago, I started taking people on museum tours. I called it, modestly, Robyn, Robyn Jamison Art Tour. And I would take people, 10 people at a time. And, and I would put them in front of a piece of art. I would ask them to choose something that they immediately felt discomfort with, or they didn't like, like to especially pick a piece of work that did not draw them in at first.
[00:19:44] And then I just asked them to stay in front of it for awhile. I'd say, "I'm going to come back for you in 15 minutes and just stay here. You can think whatever you think, experience whatever you experience, you can move closer to the work and farther from the work. You can move around it, move to different sides, to see it from different angles, but stay with this piece of work." And what I came back, without even any direction, people said, "Wow. It's not the same anymore. When I really looked at it more, I found some things about it that were really interesting. And I noticed that I had some reactions in my body, and I noticed that it looked different, and I noticed it was different when I got close from when I got back. And I noticed that there were great big brush strokes. So I could imagine the artists moving his arm or, you know, really like a huge motion or whatever. I wanted to get really up close to it. And I could see all these details that I didn't see. And I noticed that I felt upset or I noticed that I felt happier. I noticed that."
[00:20:48]So people would start to actually have an experience. And that was where the gold was. And, people said, and then, you know, there was more to the tour. And I would ask people to notice certain things after a while, and to think about certain things. What if, and how about, but all questions, not answers and it didn't require any academic learning at all. None. You wouldn't have to understand color theory. You don't have to understand compositional theory. You don't have to understand art history, really. Art is delicious when it's purely experienced and yes, it's fun and valuable to know things about it if you like to do that. And I encourage it, but I know that it's not, it's not what gives you that amazing experience. And that's a lot of what my book is about. It's debunking beliefs that people have that get in the way. It's directing people in other directions and it's letting them know, letting people know that it's really for everyone, no matter how avant garde it is, no matter how weird it is, there's no reason why it shouldn't be accessible to you, to everyone.
[00:22:07]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. And listeners of this podcast would especially, probably appreciate that because they know where I'm coming from as well, and just trying to share art with more people, because I think there is so much to art and I love your perspective of when you take more time with it, and when you have a little more even context sometimes, or, or just the guide, like you have been, it makes all the difference in the world to, you know, an experience that someone can have, especially if that's not their thing.
[00:22:40]Robyn Jameson: It's really true. And I like a really nontraditional approach. So when I took on writing the book, or it actually--I started a really long time ago and kept starting and stopping--but I also had a vision of speaking. Being a speaker for the difference that art makes and especially the part that, that people feel so locked out of. And why I'm so passionate about that is because it is a reflection of our culture. Yes, impressionism is beautiful. Yes, the old masters were awesome. I mean, what they did was incredible--such mastery and such expression. But today's art is today's art and nothing else is, and it gives you artists' perspective and artists' insight into what it's like to be alive right now. And so a few months ago, well, in May, I was in a conference called the "Conference for Global Transformation." And it was full of people who had a vision and were in action on realizing their vision. And I got in touch with the fact that I really wanted to do more than just write a book. So the book became part of what it takes from my mission, which is for everyone to have access to the art of our time and to be able to relate to it and appreciate it. And so I've been in action ever since every single day. And this is part of it to spread the word for people to, begin to open that up, open that door. I've been assembling a team, and I'm writing a song, and I'm going to be doing podcasts similar to what you're doing, and I'm traveling and speaking. That's my vision. So that, throughout the rest of my life will be devoted to having that happen.
[00:24:36]Lindsey Dinneen: That sounds amazing. Yeah. Well, and again, I love, I love your heart behind art and I love what you're trying to do with it. Do you have any specific stories that you particularly wanted to share today?
[00:24:50] Robyn Jameson: Hmm. Let's see. Oh yeah, here's one. Yes. I love this. And it really speaks to having freedom around art and not thinking that every single piece has to look the same to everyone or have a certain meaning. I was at a gallery and there was this little girl. She was about seven. And she was pointing at a, at a work of art and she said, " Mom, look, it's got a taco in it." Her mom was kind of going, "Shush." And the artist was there. It was an opening. The artist is there and she overheard it and she came up and she said, "Oh, you're right that there is a taco in it. I never saw that before. Thank you so much." Isn't that great? It's really parallel with my message that however it is for you is valid, even if you hate it, enjoy hating it, you know, what is it that you hate about it? Get into it, you know, give it some time, look and see what is it? What is that?
[00:25:51]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.
[00:25:53] Robyn Jameson: So one of the chapters in my book is about, this is a story about, you know, I've been calling all these people, some of whom I've known before. And some, I never knew just when I would get connected to them by odd ways, just like I was introduced to you. And I got this one guy on the phone, he's a filmmaker. And I was interested in having him get involved with this mission. And I was telling him about the benefits. So there's a chapter in the book about the benefits and it includes that it levels out your ... It's been proven that  it evens out your heartbeat to spend time with art, that it, it levels your cortisol.  It has cognitive benefits and your brain works better. Kids test smarter after just one visit to an art museum. They took 10,000 kids and did this test with them, and it was like a very high percentage tested higher just after one visit, and not right after either. They would wait a month. Anyway, so I was telling this guy about the benefits. He's a physicist and a filmmaker and entrepreneur, interesting guy. And I started telling him about the benefits and he goes, he started saying, "Yeah. I can just see it. Like you go to work and you go to work and you're talking to your colleague and your colleague says, 'Hey, I see you got a raise. How'd you do that?' And the person says, 'Oh, I've been going to the art museum over lunch.'  Or, or 'I see that you got engaged.' 'Yes. I've been looking at modern art and I've gotten so much more relaxed. And my, the woman I had been pursuing now finally accepted my proposal.'" So he was actually seeing it in terms of how it would affect people in their everyday life. And it was so delightful. Isn't that great?
[00:27:42] Lindsey Dinneen: That's amazing. I love it.
[00:27:44] Robyn Jameson: And it's, I mean, it sounds funny, but it really is true. It really is true that participating with art has an enormous impact on our wellbeing.
[00:27:55]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's awesome. That is amazing. So, yeah. Well, thank you again so much, Robyn, for sharing more about your experience with art and what you're kind of passionate about right now. And if it's okay with you, I do have a couple of questions. I always like to ask my guests.
[00:28:12] Robyn Jameson: Sure.
[00:28:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. So the first is going to be, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:28:21] Robyn Jameson: Okay, well, I would say that I'm a little bit of an art snob. So I consider art anything that is created with the intention for it to be, for its only function to be, presented and appreciated. For me, art is music, poetry, literature, literature, dance, visual art, film. And for me, originality is important.
[00:28:52]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay! And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:28:58]Robyn Jameson: Well, the role of the artist is to create and to create authentically from the heart. I think the role of the artist also includes sharing what they've created.
[00:29:10]Lindsey Dinneen:  Okay. And then do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And I'll define my terms a little bit with that. Yeah. So with inclusive, it's, the audience or the spectator essentially has a little bit of context to what the art is, whether it's a painting or whatever, they have a little bit behind it, either it could be something as simple as a title that's kind of helpful or, or it could be program notes or something like that. So the artists kind of invite somebody into their own interpretation per se. Versus exclusive meaning that the artists create something, shares it with the world, but it doesn't provide much or any context to it. So then it's completely kind of up to the audience to determine what they think.
[00:30:06] Robyn Jameson: Both. My preference is that people experience the art first. And then find out what the artist has to say about it or what the museum has to say about it, so that they really get their own experience first. And so that they're not looking to agree. You know, so that, like the artist says it's about this, so then when I, when I go and look at the art, then I think, "Well it's about that, instead of having it be really open-ended." So I really prefer for people to have their own experience first and then to see what the artist says about it. And even, even after seeing what the artist says about it or what the clues are to still not have it be like a quiz, like, "Oh, I got it right." Or "I didn't get it right." I really think that it's personal ultimately to each individual. I also don't want artists to be so like, so exclusive as you put it, that they won't share what they were up to.
[00:31:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Absolutely.  Well you, again, so much, Robyn. And if people want to get in contact with you, continue with your journey of speaking and writing this book and your own artwork, is there a way that they can do that?
[00:31:27] Robyn Jameson: Oh, yes, absolutely. Feel free to email me at Robyn and I spell Robyn with a y, R O B Y N at Robyn, spelled the same, Jamison, J A M I S O N.com. So it's robyn@robynjamison.com, which robynjamison.com is also my website for my own artwork. And then I'm also on Instagram and I would love, love, love to hear from people, especially anyone who might want to get involved in the, in my mission for the world.
[00:32:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome.
[00:32:03] Robyn Jameson: And anyone who's interested in any further conversation is more than welcome to contact me. Thank you so much.
[00:32:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, of course. Well again, Robyn, thank you so much for sharing with us today, but thank you in general for creating art and thank you for sharing it. And especially now, I really love what your mission is and your desire to connect art with people 'cause you know how impactful it can be for everyone to engage in art. So thank you so much for what you're doing. I can't wait to read the book. I'm excited to be a small, little part.
[00:32:43] Robyn Jameson: You're a pretty big part. And thank you. I do want to also say, I must say that the title of the book is "The Magic of Modern Art." It's not out yet. It's going to be out next year.
[00:32:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, folks. So keep your eyes open for that, because you'll definitely want to grab a copy when it comes out. And, thank you to all of you who have listened to this episode, and we will catch you next time.
[00:33:11] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:33:20]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Audible! As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners! When you sign up for a free trial membership, you'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you. And you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audio book at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again, that's www. audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners!

Episode 021 - Lindsey Dinneen

In this episode, our host's husband interviews her! Lindsey shares about her experience as Artistic Director of a professional dance company, and all the highs, lows, joys, and laughter that has produced, plus all the things she's learned along the way about leadership, communication, and the importance of the arts. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of Lindsey dancing!)
 
Get in touch with Lindsey Dinneen: www.lifebutbetter.org | www.facebook.com/lindseydinneenofficial | www.instagram.com/lindseydinneenofficial 
Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart 
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Get a free audiobook through Audible!  http://www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
 
Episode 21 - Lindsey Dinneen
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey, and the tails are turning a little bit in this episode. Actually, my husband is kind enough to join me on this role reversal, I suppose. What do you want to call it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he is actually going to be interviewing me. And, I guess I'll share some stories, but I will let Kevin take it away.
[00:00:59] Kevin Dinneen: Yes, thanks for joining me on my podcast show today. I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly on my invite.
[00:01:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yes, yes.
[00:01:08]Kevin Dinneen: I do have to say it was kind of funny. She started the show with her countdown being-- and we're starting the show in five, six, seven, eight.
[00:01:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Like a true dancer.
[00:01:21]Kevin Dinneen: So I guess, I'm kind of wanting to know what it was like for you to transition from dancing under others' directions and others' choreography to starting your own professional dance company, and both choreographing and directing that, and also running it and booking gigs, booking performances, and booking appearances and things like that. And, I'm pretty sure like 99 times out of a hundred, everything went smoothly. So maybe you don't have very many stories, but maybe if you think real hard, you can think of a couple of...
[00:02:04] Lindsey Dinneen: I can maybe do that. Yeah. Well, it's live theater. So everything goes exactly as planned, you know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, oh my goodness. I, so thinking back to when I first had the opportunity to produce a show, it was the Kansas City Fringe Festival, and I met the director and she had asked me what my future plans were. She knew I was a dancer with another company at the time and I said, well, you know, eventually I think I want to own my own dance company, professional dance company, and take that on, directing and choreographing.
[00:02:42] And, and she said, "Well, why aren't you doing that now?" And I thought, "Well, because I'm too young, and I don't have any experience and no, that's not going to be a thing." And, and she gave me this incredible opportunity. She said, "You know, we have this open slot, and for a dance company in particular, and we'd love to have you." And I remember feeling so excited, and then so overwhelmed... 
[00:03:09] Kevin Dinneen: And this slot happened to be at the ideal location, the best venue for dance in the Fringe Festival, the Kansas City Ballet's space.
[00:03:21] Lindsey Dinneen: It's gorgeous. Yeah. They have this incredible studio theater that's large and it has a great floor and the capabilities are just, it's just stunning. It's beautiful.
[00:03:33]Kevin Dinneen:  Lighting and sound, the technical side of it is professional and legit.
[00:03:39] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm a little biased, but especially for a dance perspective, it is probably the best venue,  for what I would have liked to do with it, I guess.  So I have this incredible opportunity and I just remember feeling so kind of intimidated by it thinking, "Well, I don't have very much time to prepare." By that time, I only had a couple months and that would mean, you know, recruiting dancers and doing all the choreography, figuring out costumes, figuring literally everything out. I mean, I'd never done something like this before.
[00:04:13] Kevin Dinneen: And this was a full feature production, not just like, "Hey, can you do 10 minutes or something like that."
[00:04:22]Lindsey Dinneen:  Or one piece. Right. And I only had a couple of months to prepare if I were going to say yes to it. And I remember talking to Kevin and he was so onboard. You were so onboard from the beginning, and I think he basically said, "You can't miss this opportunity." This is--yeah, you have to do this, you have to do it. And then he, and he, he also promised that he was going to be there for me every step of the way so if there was something I needed--backstage support or whatever--he would be there for me, which gave me the courage to say yes. And, just a quick little roast or whatever you want to say is now anytime where he's, you know, maybe not feeling as, as inspired as he was on day one to do some of the backstage things that have to happen, I can always be like, "I kind of started this because of you." Yeah. Kind of not fair, but I'm still gonna use it.
[00:05:17] Kevin Dinneen: She also said, "Hey, if you're agreeing to this, I promise you terrible hours and horrible pay. She's brought that up a bunch of times saying, "Hey, you knew what you were signing up for."
[00:05:30] Lindsey Dinneen: I did. I did. Yeah. I was, I was honest, at least you knew what you were getting into, but yeah.
[00:05:37]Yes. Okay. So. So here I am. I said yes to this opportunity. And I texted one of my friends that night and said, "Would you like to do this thing with me?" And, I soon had a small group of people. I think there were seven of us plus you in that first show.
[00:05:58] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Seven of us plus me.
[00:06:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, sorry. Whoops. Okay. What I mean is...
[00:06:03] Kevin Dinneen: Also, terrible credit.
[00:06:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:06:08] Kevin Dinneen: She gives a terrible credit as well.
[00:06:10]Lindsey Dinneen:  Oh no. Okay. All right. Let me caveat. We had seven professional dancers and we had Kevin. No. Okay. And then Kevin, and you'll have to listen to this episode, but Kevin joined us for one particular piece.
[00:06:27] Kevin Dinneen: Two pieces. I was in two pieces that show.
[00:06:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, you're right. Okay. So he was... all right... he's, you were the star of one of the pieces and then the second piece, he made a cameo appearance. So yes, it was in two pieces. Anywho so I, I started on this journey and I remember being just so intimidated thinking, "I have never done anything like this before on this scale." And I'm trying to create a professional production and I'm working with my peers, which is fabulous. But how do you direct your peers? I mean, how do you go from, we danced alongside each other in professional companies as peers to now, I am in a leadership role where I'm directing I'm, I'm, making corrections, I am setting the choreography, I'm making the decisions.
[00:07:22] And so all of that goes into this feeling of overwhelm and, and, "Oh my gosh, I don't even know if this is, if I can do this." And, so I had also decided that when I produced this first show, it didn't make sense to just do a solo show. I figured if I was going to do this, I might as well go ahead and just launch the company, which was a big endeavor in and of itself. So the company launched simultaneously, as we produced our first show at Fringe. And so that is what established VidaDance. And, you know, I hadn't had an example of working with a director who was working with his or her peers. I always had directors that, you know, had had their careers before.
[00:08:10] Kevin Dinneen: For years and years. They had all, all the directors that you worked under or for, they were established as the boss and I have years of proof why you should listen to me.
[00:08:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And, and that's completely legitimate. And I did not have that same experience in relation to, to my peers, in the dancers I was directing. So I just remember for a long time feeling very insecure and wondering, could I even do this and just trying to do my best and thinking, Okay. I've had wonderful opportunities to learn from all of the directors and choreographers that I've worked with. And I know what works well as far as motivating, and I know what doesn't work as well. And so I'll just try to combine all the good things I learned from those people over the years."
[00:09:06] Kevin Dinneen: If you could pick like, like two, what were the most important things that you kind of latched on to?
[00:09:17]Lindsey Dinneen:  As good things for me to emulate?
[00:09:20]Kevin Dinneen:  Or, yeah. What are the things that you just made a decision on, not having an example. If you could choose two things for someone in your position to do like you did, what two things would those be?
[00:09:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Can I cheat and say three?
[00:09:36] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:09:38] Kevin Dinneen: I'd like to amend my question, which two or three things?
[00:09:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, alright. So the first was to respect my dancers time. I was asking them to volunteer quite a bit of time, and so in rehearsal, I was dedicated from day one that only the essential people who had to be there at rehearsal were the ones called to rehearsal.
[00:10:03] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. Because you didn't have, you didn't have a budget until you got paid for the, the actual event.
[00:10:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Correct. And so I wanted to make sure that time was spent fairly and very productively. So I showed up every single time, knew exactly what I wanted to cover with a select group of people, and nobody else had to be there. So definitely respecting dancers' time was a huge, huge thing for me. Another thing was, at a professional level--and this is my opinion, and everyone can have something different--but I do not believe in asking dancers to work for free. They have already invested years and years of money and time and training. And at this point I would like to see them at a point where they're financially rewarded for their work. And so that was a big thing for me. And then, oh, my goodness. Now I'm going to forget my third.
[00:10:57] Kevin Dinneen: I'd like to amend my first amendment and say thank you for answering the two things that you would tell someone in your position.
[00:11:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Shoot. If it comes back to me all, I'll, I'll return to it. Yeah. So I just remember feeling insecure and feeling like, I just don't know if I can do a good job and just trying to do the very best I could and treat everyone with respect and care and we would just go and put a show on together and see what happened. And then leading up to the first performance. I wrote out my pre-show speech and rehearsed it so many times.
[00:11:37] Kevin Dinneen: So many times.
[00:11:39]Lindsey Dinneen: So many times, 'cause I wanted to explain the concept of the company, you know, because we were introducing ourselves essentially to the world. Right? We were, there it is, that was our world premiere as a professional company not just for that show.  I just remember being backstage before the very first show and like shaking, right? I am shaking because I have to introduce the show, and I'm not a super confident public speaker. I don't hate it. Like I'll go and do it. But I wasn't thrilled about it.  I just remember walking out and I had the mic, and the mic always helps me feel a little more relaxed for whatever reason.
[00:12:16]Kevin Dinneen:  As opposed to the lapel mic, you wanted to hold it.
[00:12:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I wanted to hold it because that way I had something for my hands to do, but I just remembered, like, literally my legs shaking and I don't think it was noticeable. I don't know.
[00:12:28] Kevin Dinneen: It wasn't!
[00:12:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. That's good, but I remember feeling so unsteady on my feet like I will just fall over in a second. And then as soon as that was over and I guess I didn't botch it up too much, I saw a video later. It wasn't, it was, it was good. It was decent.
[00:12:42] Kevin Dinneen: It was fine. It was better than 90% of other ones that I've seen-- your first one was.
[00:12:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, that's sweet. So right from there, I was, and I do this to myself way too much-- I haven't learned my lesson on this whole thing-- but  I switch gears immediately from director mode. As in, I have to introduce this concept and the show, to I am a dancer in the first place. Please don't do that. If there are any directors out there, it's a stupid idea. And I still don't learn my lesson. And in fact, the very last show I did, I did the same darn thing, but anyway, switched modes into dancer mode, because not only was I directing it, the show, but I, the first show I choreographed...all of it? Almost all of it?
[00:13:31]Kevin Dinneen:  I remember you're, you're choreographing like every spare second. You had your headphones in and you're moving around the...
[00:13:43]Lindsey Dinneen:  Living room
[00:13:44] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, living room.
[00:13:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because that was where I choreographed. Still do. So, okay. So then I choreographed most of it, if not all of it. And then I was dancing in a lot of it and well, I I've continued to do that because for me, I absolutely love performing and it would be difficult for me to give that up, so I continued to do all three roles in our shows that we produce, which I absolutely love. But I just remember getting onto the stage that first time after switching modes and thinking, "Whew, that was weird." And, and trying to, like, turn my brain off from evaluating how I did in that speech, to I need to remember the choreography right now. I mean, right now is my time to perform and that was such an interesting dynamic for show number one. And then kind of after that, everything went smoothly and happily... no. So, okay. Was it the next year? I think it was the very next year that we had our Murphy's Law set of shows. 
[00:14:46] Kevin Dinneen: It was for four nights of performances and something interesting happened every night.
[00:14:56] Lindsey Dinneen: The ones that stand out to me were, one night, one of the dancers was late to the show...
[00:15:06]Kevin Dinneen:  Not just late. Late could be like five minutes, 10 minutes to call, right? To get there for prep.
[00:15:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, late would be... right. Like in a dancer's world, late, if you're late that's--you did not arrive before or at the call time, which is usually like what an hour? An hour and a half before performance time. An hour and a half.
[00:15:24] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, depending on the show.
[00:15:25] Lindsey Dinneen: That's true. That's true. Right. This dancer missed three numbers for basically about half the show because she had ended up switching cars to get to the theater, and realized about halfway to the theater that she had her costumes in the other car. So she had to completely retrace their steps. But anyway, so then as a result of that, we ended up on the spot having to--and things like that happen, like total grace, things like that happen-- but, the rest of us dancers had to figure out on the spot what we were going to do because she had a number of featured roles in the pieces that were at the beginning of the show.
[00:16:07] Kevin Dinneen: She had a long solo too, pretty close to the beginning.
[00:16:09] Lindsey Dinneen: She had a long solo. Yeah.
[00:16:11] Kevin Dinneen: Or pretty close to the beginning.
[00:16:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So we had to kind of figure out who is going to fill in her spots. And, you know, it's one of those things where, when it's that last minute, you just do your absolute best. And if it's not exactly what the choreography was, who cares? I just wanted to make sure that the stage wasn't blank. And I have to say, I'll circle back around to this, but I have never been prouder of that group of dancers than I was in that moment, because there was nobody who was complaining or saying, "What?! I can't believe, blah, blah, blah." I mean, 'cause these things happen, right? And instead everyone was immediately in, "Okay, this is a situation. How do we make it work?"
[00:16:54] Kevin Dinneen: Didn't like a couple of people were like, "Well, I can do this." And then you were just like...
[00:17:00] Lindsey Dinneen: They just took it on.
[00:17:01] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:17:01] Lindsey Dinneen: They took full ownership.
[00:17:02] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. And I did not realize that there was a change until she came on and I was like, "Hey! She's just, she's just now on there?"
[00:17:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Kevin Dinneen: Like, everyone rocked it.
[00:17:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. No, I mean, and I think, so we basically ended up divvying out her roles among three or four dancers, but it was so amazing to me, 'cause I remember one of my dancers saying, "Oh, I think I know that solo well enough. I'll, I'll go out and do it." And I was like, "Great." And then another said, "Oh, I can do her part for this particular piece." And she'd never done it. You know, nobody had ever rehearsed this stuff and they just rocked it.  I mean, so proud and so thankful and so impressed with the caliber-- I mean, I know that these people are wonderful that I get to work with, but-- it was in that moment when I realized, wow, this is an amazing atmosphere here that people are just so--it doesn't matter what the situation-- they just dive right in and solve the problem. And I love that. And so then the next performance, one of the dancers got to the theater and realized she didn't have any of her shoes. So I think that was a pair of character shoes, pointe shoes, probably flat ballet shoes, jazz shoes, even.
[00:18:19] Kevin Dinneen: This is part of the story that I didn't even realize, I thought it was just one of her pairs of shoes.
[00:18:23] Lindsey Dinneen: No, all of them. And so she sent her husband back home to get the shoes and he brought them back. He wasn't gonna make it in time for the first few numbers. So the rest of us all rallied around, found spare shoes amongst all of, you know, the dancers and, and just made it work. And it worked. And then another night, it's our finale piece and it was this really fun, upbeat, jazz and tap kind of hybrid piece. And...
[00:18:52] Kevin Dinneen: We have video of this...
[00:18:56] Lindsey Dinneen: I think we'll probably release it...
[00:18:57] Kevin Dinneen: We need to maybe put a link in the show notes.
[00:19:01] Lindsey Dinneen: He might forgive us. It's okay. So one of my dancers is Joe. Awesome, awesome guy, and he has thankfully an amazing sense of humor, but, okay. So great upbeat song. He is like rearing to go. He's always super high energy...
[00:19:18] Kevin Dinneen: And his entrances are almost always like over-the-top high energy with a leap, with a turn.
[00:19:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Explosive. And I mean, he just rocks the stage when he comes out. So, so he's all eager beaver over there in the wings. And I see it, I see this out of the corner of my eye, and I realize that as he goes onto the stage, I realize that it's not his time. And he has literally entered the stage probably a good...
[00:19:55] Kevin Dinneen: 30 seconds...
[00:19:56] Lindsey Dinneen: 30 seconds before he's actually supposed to enter. And this was when he was actually going to be super in the way, because this particular piece had a lot of crossing back and forth. It was not conducive to the traffic flow.  I did not realize until he made it on stage and then I was like, "Oh, no!" You know, like that's slow emotion, reaching for something kind of thing, and then realizing there's nothing you can do. So, so he sashays onto stage bright and cheerful, and realizes immediately that he's way too early. So he does like, he does like a u-turn and sashays towards the wings, but he knows as any good professional does that you can't just like enter, and exit, because then it'll be super obvious that you messed up. So instead he comes back to the wing, he's close to the curtain, and he does this very big grand gesture towards the dancers as if he's introducing them.
[00:20:53] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Like, like welcome to the show.
[00:20:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Right. With his arms, with the wide sweeping gesture, and he just stays there and waits, and it was  amazing. And, oh, my word. So anyway, that was our Murphy's Law set of shows that we had. But you know what, again, I was so proud of our dancers because every time we had an issue, they were like on it immediately. But also that was the first year that we won Best of Venue for the Kansas City Fringe Festival. So it kind of proved to me that not only can we rally together, but that we rock it when we do. I mean, it, we really have such a close knit group of people. There, there is nothing like it, I'm so grateful for this group of people.
[00:21:40] Kevin Dinneen: So when you started your whole directing career, you were worried about certain things and you made certain things a certain way based on your experiences and what you wanted the experience for your dancers to be. I'd kinda like to know what things did you learn the hard way, because you made certain changes before you even started to what is the norm, or what you experienced, and what things--did you learn anything like, "Oh, I really didn't do that right." Or that, you know, as a director.
[00:22:17]Lindsey Dinneen:  Well, one thing that I learned that I was surprised was, in the beginning, I used to do a lot of very general corrections when things weren't looking correct. I wouldn't call out anyone in particular. And, it was intentional at the time. It was, I felt a little bit bad--again, when you're working with your peers, and you're just not sure quite how that dynamic is going to go. I did very generalized corrections for a while and I think that, as a result, like on the other side of things, generalized questions are actually very frustrating because you don't know if the director's referring to you or somebody else or what's going on. And it's, it's actually very unhelpful.  And so, so I did that thinking I was kind of protecting feelings and then it, as it turns out, it was actually--I'm diminishing the quality because people didn't know when they weren't correct, like when it applied to them versus when it didn't. So that was definitely something I learned was, it wasn't hurting people's feelings. People wanted to know. And that was, that was a huge thing for me is they were like, "No, tell me when I'm not doing it correctly. Tell me when I look different from other people. I want to do it with excellence." So I definitely remember learning that.
[00:23:35] Kevin Dinneen: Sort of a followup question, so what kind of things--you've talked about, when you first started directing--some of the things that you were worried about? So what things nowadays, what are we five years into it? Or a little more?
[00:23:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Almost. Yeah. We're about to kick off our sixth season.
[00:23:54] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. So, so how has, how has that shifted? What, what kind of things kind of get you uncomfortable these days?
[00:24:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, good question. I definitely am way more comfortable with public speaking, introducing the shows, talking about it. I would say that, I'm still hesitant when it comes to asking for donations or something like that. That still feels very kind of foreign to me. We became a nonprofit late last year and it-- I, I fully believe in what we're doing, but I will just say for me personally, this is kind of a new leap of faith to start fundraising and really start feeling comfortable with asking for money. So I would say that's a new area for me. I've always, I guess, tried to kind of make things happen on my own?
[00:24:44] Kevin Dinneen: Yes, you've bootstraped everything. Everything you've done has been, we'll put in as much as we can.
[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: I am an expert at asking for specific kinds of donations. Money is difficult for me, but if I can ask for in -kind donations, I actually do a pretty good job on that, come to think of it. Yeah, so.
[00:25:06]Kevin Dinneen:  Yeah, just send an email, send the email.
[00:25:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Send the email. That's a whole 'nother conversation.
[00:25:13] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. That's a whole 'nother podcast special.
[00:25:19] Lindsey Dinneen: So. Yeah. So, so I think that's an area of growth for me.  I've written a few grants before, actually for other companies, but I haven't really done much--again, kind of now we're in this, this space where we can start really pursuing grants that are available to nonprofits. So that will be another opportunity for growth, not something I've done a lot of and not something that I'm super familiar with the process.
[00:25:43]Kevin Dinneen: What about, like opening night? There were things that you used to worry about, and there are things that you still worry about. Are they the same things or have those things changed?
[00:25:54] Lindsey Dinneen: I think I still always have those opening night jitters. It just always, you just never know. You pour your heart and soul into a project and you believe in it. And when you're watching it in rehearsal, you think, yes, this could be something. But you don't really know until opening night, when you start hearing the audience.
[00:26:15]Kevin Dinneen:  Five years in, do you have a better feel or is it the same level as when you started?
[00:26:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Good question. No, it is not the same. I felt when I launched the company, I was trying to do a very different concept than anything that Kansas City had seen, for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones was that we do variety style shows, in the sense that our dancers are hugely multitalented. They can do ballet, modern, jazz, tap...
[00:26:41]Kevin Dinneen:  And you incorporate all of that into a show.
[00:26:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And I remember thinking, I don't think Kansas City is ready for this because it was so different. And so first show jitters were ridiculous because I thought, I am really putting myself out there by declaring who we're going to be, and it was so unique, that I was afraid that it would just be completely rejected, you know? Oh, that's stupid. Now, I mean, I know, so there's been a lot of proof that our concept not only works, but people love it. I mean, they look forward to it every year. They talk about how much joy it brings them and that's all I've ever wanted to do. So, it's not the same. I still get those like, "Oh, is this gonna work? Is it going to work?" Or, you know, are people gonna understand what this piece is about, but not to the same level.
[00:27:34] Kevin Dinneen: Well, and I think some of that probably comes with how different every show is that you do. You never do the same thing twice, and it's always completely original, right? So you go, you see one show, the next one is going to be completely different. So, I guess I could see how that would, if you're doing the same show year after year, it would make a lot more sense that you would just get comfortable.
[00:27:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, sure.
[00:28:00] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. People like this, but it's something new every time.
[00:28:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. You're absolutely right. There are new concepts every time. I don't repeat work, so yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point.
[00:28:08] Kevin Dinneen: I do also want to throw out a caveat here. Lindsey's never heard these questions.
[00:28:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, no, that is very true.
[00:28:14] Kevin Dinneen: We did not talk about this is ahead of time.
[00:28:17]Lindsey Dinneen: I guess I would say kind of along with that, just to give, some more perspective . So, backing up, you know, I just kind of talked about the fact that all I've ever wanted to do was bring joy through our performances and that is the heart and soul behind the company. But, besides having this variety of styles that we do consistently throughout our shows, the other thing that we do is, our whole point as a company is to make dance accessible to everyone, to people that have a background in dance and understand the difference between a pirouette and a foute to the people who absolutely have never gone to a performance before and probably didn't have any interest in doing so. And so we do that through a lot of ways, because I do think that dance can bring so much joy to people if they can appreciate it. And so we do a variety of styles so that, you know what, hey, if you're not in a classical ballet fan, you're not sitting through an hour of just classical ballet. You'll see tap, which is super fun, hard to dislike tap, and you'll see some jazz and you'll see some modern and, you know, you might even see some Irish Step or Bollywood.
[00:29:26]We're always exploring, you know, what, what can we do as a company? How can we grow? And, we're very passionate about making our storylines easy to understand so that, you know, you don't leave thinking well, I had no idea what that piece was about.  The choreographers always write notes about what the piece is about or what inspired them for the programs. Oh, yes. For the programs. and so you always have a little bit of context. You can draw from it what you want, but at least you kind of know what the original intention was behind the artist's choice.
[00:29:59] Kevin Dinneen: A lot of your music is very relatable and, you know, matches the, the idea behind the piece very well.
[00:30:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. We don't do a lot of super abstract work. I don't even think we've really done anything that's very abstract.  We're trying to find and share the beauty, light and joy that we experience when we dance with the world. And I dance because it inspires my soul. And I just want to share a little piece of that inspiration.
[00:30:31]Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Okay. So a little behind-the-scenes question here.
[00:30:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:30:36] Kevin Dinneen: So I've noticed that your anxiety and your worrying and, and that sort of whole bundle of feelings tends to grow and grow and grow until we get to opening night. And then you're just like, you know, whatever, if something comes up, I'll take care of it. What is that? How do you do that?
[00:31:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Okay. So, yes.
[00:31:03]Kevin Dinneen: Did you always have that?
[00:31:04] Lindsey Dinneen: No. Nope. Nope. Nope. I had to learn that as a director, very early on, because if you get too much of control freakiness going on, then you will just-- you won't have a good time. There'll just be, like every little thing that happens will be the end of the world, when it isn't. And, so, you know, I had worked--both of, all of us--I mean, we had worked quadruple time trying to make everything work just in a couple months to launch an entire company and a new show. And we get up to the opening day and I just remember thinking, you know what? We have worked so hard and now there's nothing we can do. So there's no, no other things to fix. There's nothing else that can, can, you know, we can't work on anything else at this point. So we just need to--whatever is whatever happens, happens, and we just go along for the ride and... and to that point, you know, unless something goes crazy wrong in the sense of, "Oh gosh, that lift really didn't work. We need to fix it." something like that. I don't give notes in between the shows.  I remember being on the receiving end of some of that. And it's actually very disheartening as a dancer, because you know, you're all trying your best, right? I mean, if you care and you're at a professional level--I think that means you care-- you're going to do your best. You're representing yourself, you're representing the choreographer, you're representing the company. Like you want to do your best.
[00:32:35] Kevin Dinneen: Do you think everyone who steps into a director role can do that? Or do you think that it's your dancers that allowed you to be able to do that?
[00:32:45]Lindsey Dinneen: That's a great question. I think that my dancers-- and I'm very biased-- but I think my dancers allowed me to be able to that. Oh, they have  allowed me to be a better director, to grow as a director, to be a better director because they do care and, and I don't have to worry about them. I know that they're going to do their best. And if someone messes up, it's not because they are just like, "whatever." It's because life happens and you don't always make your fourth rotation on your pirouette, or, or whatever.
[00:33:18] Kevin Dinneen: I've always made my fourth rotation.
[00:33:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Have you? Okay. On the floor or? Okay. Yeah.
[00:33:26] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. Is there anything else that you would like to just volunteer before-- I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.
[00:33:33]Lindsey Dinneen:  Boy. You know, the one thing I just want to say is I know what that third thing was! It's coming back. Okay. And it's this. It's really simple, but I think the number one thing you can do as a director or as anyone in leadership is to always show appreciation and gratitude for the people who come alongside you. I mean, I look back and think those seven people chose to work with someone that they had never, I had never set any choreography on them. I had never been in a leadership role with them. They didn't know what that was gonna look like. And they said yes, anyway. And, then every year the company has grown and grown and grown, and I will never be able to say, thank you enough to them. But there is no feeling in the world that matches what it feels like when I get to be on stage doing what I love the most with the people I love the most. And that feeling of "This came from nothing. And together, we have built this company that is now five years strong and we have done amazing things and we have brought joy to audiences." And there is nothing in my life that is more fulfilling than realizing the kind of impact that we have had and that we can have. And the magic that comes from a group of people who truly care, and then share that.
[00:35:15] Kevin Dinneen: And I do want to add that she left out social proof, winning Best Of at Fringe three out of five times. Big deal.
[00:35:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That was really amazing.
[00:35:29] Kevin Dinneen: All right. Okay. So if I were to task you with writing a definition of art, you can't look up Webster's or anything like that, how do you define art?
[00:35:41]Lindsey Dinneen: You're using my questions against me. Okay. okay. Art is an expression of creativity that shares someone's life experiences-- whether that's feelings or situation or dreams-- with the world.
[00:36:10]Kevin Dinneen: Okay.
[00:36:12] Lindsey Dinneen: How about that?
[00:36:13] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah!  What do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:36:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So I believe the most important role of an artist is to share beauty, hope and joy with the world. And I realize that there are so many things that artists can express. And I love that. I love that art can tackle very difficult topics and open up conversations about things that need to be discussed. And I, I so admire that. I think that there's a place for that, but I think ultimately, opening up those conversations and dealing with those difficult topics can lead to hope and optimism that the world can be changed and that things can be improved. And whether that just starts with the one person who was inspired by that, or whether that spreads out through an audience that thinks, "Wow, I've never looked at it that way before. And I am empowered. I am empowered to make a change. " And I think it's so important that artists can take life and give it this gorgeous rich goodness.
[00:37:44]Kevin Dinneen: Okay. All right. So now,  you've lived your full life. You've come to the end of your life,  and you're given the opportunity, though, to make a decision on how to spend the last part of your life. You have the opportunity to experience a piece of art one more time. One piece-- whether that be watch a movie, watch a play, look at a visual art, listen to a piece of music--whatever, whatever that is, you get to experience a piece of art that you appreciate one more time. What is that one last time? What is that one piece of art?
[00:38:24]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's a tough question. I think, I think that I would like to see "Cracked!" one more time. And for context, that is the original production that VidaDance produced that premiered in 2019. And it is a Kansas City inspired "Nutcracker." And the reason that I would want to see that particular production is because it has so many people in it that I just deeply, deeply care about. And, they're doing what they love. They're sharing their art, and it's a production that we had the opportunity to spearhead from the very beginning. I mean, it wasn't even a concept without, without us creating it. And so I think that there's so much tied into how proud I am of that production. And at the same time, I would get to see some of my favorite people doing what they love the most, in an art form that I just absolutely adore. I think that would have to be when I pick.
[00:39:40]Kevin Dinneen:  Okay. Shaped after your, your favorite city.
[00:39:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Shaped after my favorite city containing my favorite man! That'd be you.
[00:39:49]Kevin Dinneen: Alright. I'm honored. All right. Well, thanks, babe, for joining me on my special episode of your podcast. And, I hope you can make it back sometime.
[00:40:03] Lindsey Dinneen: I hope you can host again sometime! Well, thank you very much. And, thank you to all of you who listen. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to share it with someone you think might be inspired or touched by it as well. And we look forward to catching you next time.
[00:40:23] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

Episode 020 - Meghan Spencer

In this episode, I welcome Meghan Spencer! Meghan is the owner/photographer of Spencer Studios and an aerialist with Kansas City Aerial Arts. She shares some of her most memorable memories of encounters with art, and why they are the moments that matter most. Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of Meghan, by Meghan! And BONUS: Here's a link to a blog post Meghan wrote on the creative process on a project that has been one of her most important artistic projects: https://kansascityaerialarts.com/masked-a-superhero-love-story-the-creative-process/. Enjoy!
 
Get in touch with Meghan Spencer: www.spencerstudiosphotography.com | https://www.facebook.com/SpencerStudiosPhotography | www.instagram.com/aerialist.meghan | www.instagram.com/spencerstudios | www.kansascityaerialarts.com 
Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart 
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Episode 20 - Meghan Spencer
Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time doesn't have to be perfect ever, really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:24]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today the absolutely lovely Meghan Spencer. She is an aerialist with Kansas City Aerial Arts as well as the owner and a photographer extraordinaire of Spencer Studios. And I just am so thankful that you're here with us today. Thank you, Meghan.
[00:01:02] Meghan Spencer: Thank you so much for having me. I'm, I'm super excited about getting to join you on your podcast.
[00:01:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Well, if you don't mind, I'd love if you just share a little bit about yourself, maybe a little bit about your background, if that's okay.
[00:01:15] Meghan Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. So my full time job is I am a wedding and portrait photographer. That is the studio, Spencer Studios. And my last name is Spencer. So that's where that comes from. I get asked the question, "Who is Spencer?" very often. So, that's me. And, I primarily shoot weddings and boudoir, and in the last few years, I've kind of started picking up doing some business and branding stuff. I've also started shooting other artists in Kansas City. I had a, a light bulb moment that I can shoot and also interact with my other passion at the same time, which is pretty cool. So that's my, that's my full time gig. And then my side gig is I am an aerialist with Kansas City Aerial Arts, and I not only am a performer, but I also am a coach and a choreographer. And that side of it is also really exciting for me and something that brings me a lot of joy in my life.
[00:02:11] And in terms of kind of my longterm interactions with art, I started dancing when I was about four. Took that, that little tap class that all little dancers take with the shiny black shoes and the, I think my first costume was a yellow polka dot bikini if I remember, which is amazing and I love it. And then I danced pretty much my entire childhood. I was a part of a competitive dance company. And then when I got into high school, I never thought I'd be a professional performer. I just didn't think I was talented enough. And so I decided to quit dance. I could do the performance opportunities that were available to me in high school, and like the stuff that I knew I'd only really be able to do in high school. So I was in seven music ensembles and theater.
[00:03:05] I did band and choir and show choir and all the theater productions and all that stuff, which at the time just felt like doing a bunch of stuff I enjoyed, but in retrospect has really guided all those little things have really influenced my performance ability as an adult. And then after high school, I was in the marching band for four years in college. And then, after college I did one community play and then my, my artistic options kind of dried up. I got married. I, you know, living life and I, I didn't realize how much I had missed those performance opportunities until I had a friend that suggested I try aerial. And now I've been doing that for five and a half years and I'm performing again. And, so my life has pretty much been artistic for all of it in some way, shape or form.
[00:04:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure because I've had the opportunity to see too, but your dance background has significantly, I would say, given you a leg up, which--I probably shouldn't have said that pun, but anyway, here we are-- you know, for your aerial. I mean, do you think that that did help? I think you have a different approach than maybe somebody who doesn't have a dance background and, and comes into it, maybe from a gymnastics background or another kind of athletic background. I mean, do you think it gives you a different vibe?
[00:04:36] Meghan Spencer: Absolutely. I think both the dance background, as well as an acting background, both give me a really interesting perspective and I know that having a dance background means I don't ever have to think about my hands or my feet ever. I don't think about pointing my toes. I don't think about making my hands pretty. That's something that's really, really innate in how my body moves, which allows me the space to think about other things, which is really wonderful. And also the acting background has taught me a lot about building characters and how to communicate a lot of storytelling and emotions through the way that I'm moving my body. And I think those two things have really given me the opportunity to have a new way to express while also using all those tools that are like already in my toolbox.
[00:05:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So we'll circle back to aerial because I'm such a fan of aerialists. I, first of all, if you, as an audience member, have not seen aerial yet, please go and support a performance because aerialists are absolutely amazing athletes and artists. And I want to be one when I grow up, but, but, back to your photography. So was that something that you had dabbled in earlier and then decided, "Hey, you know, I, I really could have this as my career, as my full time job." I mean, how, how did that evolve?
[00:06:10] Meghan Spencer: So in high school, I always had a camera on me always. And point and shoots existed. The one that I have was huge, like, it didn't even fit in my purse, so I'd have to carry it separately. And I just had it on me all the time and all my friends knew that I would be the one taking all the pictures and be posting them to Facebook like the next day. So they could have access to them, and that was just like my persona in high school. I just carried my camera everywhere. And then after high school, the summer between my freshman and sophomore year of college, for a summer job, I worked with a family friend who was a photographer, and I did all the, the grunt work, right? Like I, the boring editing and setting the lights up before shoots and things like that. And one day I was driving home, listening to music, and I had this realization that I had a really awesome day doing all of the grunt work. And I was like, "Well, maybe if the boring part of this job is something that I enjoy, maybe this is the thing I should do, do for a living."
[00:07:18]And that was just, that was just the start of it. And by the end of that summer, that studio ended up shutting down for a handful of reasons. And, I was sitting in my bed one morning, being sad because the job I really liked didn't exist anymore. And I was like, "Well, I guess I'll just do it myself then." And I got up and I made a website which was ugly and terrible, and it just kind of went from there. And by the time, I mean, probably two years from then, I was, I was sure that I was going to be a professional photographer for a living. All my advisors in college knew that that was my track, and that was, that was just something--I was shooting in college-- I had technically had already opened my business and was like editing and delivering products out of my sorority house.
[00:08:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice.
[00:08:13] Meghan Spencer: Yeah. I remember walking a client's photos to try it out one day, 'cause I was like, well, they, they live in this other sorority house. So walking over like, so I was already starting to do that at that point. So it's always been the plan and it took some years of building it to a point where it's financially viable on its own, but it's just something that I've known I've wanted to do since that light bulb moment on my way home from work that one day.
[00:08:43]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And you, well, okay, so this year has been wonky for everyone. We had a conversation about that even before we started recording, but you're booked up. I mean, you are in general, you have weddings all the time, all sorts of photo shoots. So your business just seems to have grown and grown and grown. So congratulations, because that's a really big deal.
[00:09:07] Meghan Spencer: Thank you. Yeah, it is and I, I have a couple of photographers that I mentor not in any sort of formal capacity, but they, and they asked me about that, and talk to me about that, and really, I mean, I had the business technically open for, I think, eight years before I went full time. And it took a long time and I almost threw in the towel a couple of times because building something like that is something that just takes a lot of time, and a lot of practice and you make a lot of mistakes, some of which are financially costly. But I just kept, I just kept pushing and eventually all the things aligned. I moved to Kansas City where my business, and my business model, and who I am as a person just fit in this market really well. And I just worked and worked and worked and eventually, yeah, just got to a point where I was able to quit my part-time job. And I got pretty lucky that I had a job that I could, as my business grew, I could cut down my hours and then eventually I could, you know, jump ship and do it full-time. And I've been really lucky that that has worked out for me pretty well. And also, I, can't not comment on the fact that my, my spouse has been very, very supportive throughout this process. And he's the one that kept me from not throwing in the towel. So, I really would not have been able to do it without, without his support.
[00:10:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's so important to have a great support system as an artist, your spouse, or, you know, your partner definitely is key. And then having a group of people who can help encourage you because it is tough. And yeah, there are definitely times when you want to throw in the towel and just go this isn't it or that, but yeah, I'm glad to hear that. Excellent. Well, I have a question, and this is just something that, you know, I've asked a couple people--it's, it's so difficult sometimes to put a price tag on art, I think. And it's important because what you do has a lot of value, obviously. And you've honed your craft for years, but sometimes still as an artist, it can be difficult to say, "Okay, well, it's worth X." How did you navigate that at the beginning? And maybe as you've grown as an entrepreneur, how has that evolved over time? Being able to sort of say, "Well, my products are great. Here's how I price it."
[00:11:48] Meghan Spencer: Well, I've been in business for 11 years and it still sucks. So, so it's gotten slightly better. It's still really hard.
[00:11:56]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah.
[00:11:57] Meghan Spencer: When I started, I, I had, because I had worked for someone else in the industry that meant that I had a little bit of knowledge in terms of what the industry was supporting at the time, which allowed me to have kind of a baseline which is, which was useful. And then over time, I've just raised my prices or adjusted my, my packages. There was, my original packages for weddings didn't work. They just were not what people wanted and it just wasn't working for me. And so then I changed them. They used to have eight hours and I was consistently annoyed that I wasn't able to shoot more getting ready or more reception or whatever the thing was. And so I changed it and they all include nine now. So a lot of that has been trial and error, figuring out what people want, and what works well in terms of creating those packages. And, pricing wise, I just, I try and raise my prices every couple of years to, to account for inflation and to account for the fact that I'm continuously better at my job, because I'm doing it more. And that's hard. I've been saying I was going to raise my prices for, I think, three years. And then COVID hit and then I did it again.
[00:13:20] So, I'm under-priced. And I really should fix it, but it's, it's just part of that process of, even if you've done it for a long time, being confident enough in your work to say that you're worth X amount. And I also pay a lot attention to what's going on in the market. That is always been a really big, determining factor for me in terms of if the market kind of ranges from here to here, and this is the market average. I want to be just a little bit above that market average. And that, that really has helped kind of at least give me a ballpark of where I want to be.
[00:13:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense. So are there any particular memories or stories that kind of stand out to you as being particularly impactful or memorable about some interaction with art?
[00:14:13] Meghan Spencer: So, I know you were gonna ask this question. So I've been thinking about it like always, and honestly, I just have a lifetime of moments that stand out to me as super memorable and are thus because of art. I, in high school heading into my senior year, I, we had a girl who the previous year was a senior and was super popular and super fun and bubbly, and everybody loved her and she was diagnosed with cancer. And at that age, that was catastrophic for us and so for that year for show choir, our show choir director wrote--'cause he, he wrote all of our ballads every year and he wrote one for her--and the first time that we all sang it together, she came back and singing this gorgeous ballad with her there. And all of us, like it was, it was so emotional and pivotal. And she's okay. She beat it and everything's great. But, so like, you know, that, that moment.
[00:15:25] Or in, my sophomore year of high school, we went to London. And one day we were at the London National Art Museum. And I was just wandering, kind of by myself, 'cause I like to take my time in art museums and nothing was really catching my eye. And then I found this painting and there was something about it that I just couldn't take my eyes off it. And I sat in front of it for about a half an hour. And honestly, I've never been able to figure out what that painting is. 'Cause I wasn't smart enough to write it down and I can't find it. But I've never forgotten that moment. And it's been like 15 years. And I remember what it looks like and I just couldn't, there's something about it. And I don't even really know what it was, but I just couldn't take my eyes off it.
[00:16:15]And then even more recently, I, I created an act in 2018 for an aerial show. And it was the first time that someone had trusted me with something so important. I had a solo, and it was a really big emotional piece, and no one had ever trusted me with something that important before. And I created something that I'm really, really proud of. And then eight days later, I had a catastrophic injury and that power from that solo kind of carried me through that injury in some ways was a negative thing, because it was like, I did that. And am I ever going to be able to do it again? And the lid on that injury in my head was the day that I did that solo again, after I got hurt. And it was about a year later after I had my injury. And that moment where I realized that my body healed and my heart still had some healing to do, but that I was past it. That was a big emotional moment. So I feel like my interactions with art, because I have been so involved in art in all ways, since I was so little. It's just all these little moments that pretty much make up, you know, this timeline of my entire life.
[00:17:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, and circling back to your, your injury. So I know that, that--  well, for context, for those who don't know, Kansas City Aerial Arts and my professional company, VidaDance, partnered together for several years now and on several different productions-- and so I've had the privilege of knowing Meghan for a couple of years now. And I remember that injury just being so devastating and, you know, you're working so hard to get back and, you know, each little step forward was celebrated, but it was hard and, and you were just such a champion through it all, but yeah, what was the process like of trying to come back after having been injured and not being able to do what you love and then, really having to build that strength up, I would imagine, again. What was that like?
[00:18:43] Meghan Spencer: Yeah. The, the injury was pretty catastrophic, both physically and emotionally. And I, it was rough. I was completely grounded for eight months, but that didn't keep me from being involved. And I knew the only way I was going to survive, it was to stay involved. If I knew that all my friends were at the studio making something cool and I was staying at home, that would be significantly worse than being there and not being able to get in the air because if I was there, at least I was with my friends and I still have a brain. I still have a creative mind and I can be useful. And I got very lucky that I'm a part of an organization that wanted to keep me involved. And I was in a show. I was in a show two months later, tap dancing with a very, very injured arm.
[00:19:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
[00:19:39] Meghan Spencer: And like, I wouldn't have been able to do that had I not had a 13-year-old to tie my tap shoes and another adult to put me in my corset, like I needed so much help to be able to do that. And nobody batted an eye at helping me do that so I could still stay involved. And that was amazing. And then coming back was hard. I lost more strength than I realized I was going to. I knew that the around the injury was going to be a challenge, but I didn't realize that my entire body was going to have to essentially gain strength all over again, which has always been the hardest part about aerial for me. It took a lot and there are some, there are some rough days. The first day that I came back to condition and I was still grounded, but I was going to try and start working on strength for the rest of my body, was really hard.
[00:20:38] And I had a really rough day. And then after I was done, we had a company rehearsal. We're doing trust exercises, like trust falls and things like that. And that I couldn't participate in and I love that . So I just sat there in my puddle of like, "I'm weak and I can't do this, and now I'm sad." So there is a lot of that, but I also was so supported by my team, like, I wasn't alone one day for the first two weeks. I, every single day had somebody show up at my house and make sure I had lunch and talk to me for a couple of hours and make sure I was okay. And I remember, I was talking to a couple of our teenagers one day and I finally was able to lift my arm to 90 degrees.
[00:21:28] And you would have thought that I was doing backflips. They were so, so excited and so proud, which is, yeah, it was so sweet 'cause they're both contortionists. So like they're just like busy putting their head on their butt like it's no big deal. And they were so supportive and proud and not only in that moment was I thankful for having them in my life, but I was also thankful that I have an organization that was teaching those teenagers, like how to be good people. So, yeah, so I was, I was super supported and once I finally was back in the air, I was able to-- there was a role in the next show that was primarily a ground roll with a little bit of aerial in a way that we were able to kind of avoid the injury while I was still healing. And while it was still, you know, getting strength back and, and that was, yeah, that was probably the most important role I've ever played in my entire life.
[00:22:25]And it just, it all just worked out and it's, it's taken awhile to kind of get past it emotionally as well. And I still have a little bit of PTSD from the whole thing. I cannot watch bones break. I used to be able to watch it on TV, no big deal. Now I cannot, and injuries are harder for me to deal with, but it also has given me some space on the ground to learn how to coach. That's the time that I got to take, take time to learn how to coach and be a good coach. And now that's a really positive part of my experience with aerial is being able to coach. So yeah.
[00:23:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you touched on something really, really important that the community is vital and I've always appreciated, admired that about Kansas City Aerial Arts, but it's not the only arts organization that's like that of essentially building a family of people who are staunch supporters of each other, no matter what happens and you know, are going to be there through thick and thin. And, unfortunately not every organization is like that, but to find a community like that is, is special and worth holding on to.
[00:23:44] Meghan Spencer: Yeah. Yeah. And we, we know that it's, that it's not normal, and I'm not really sure how we cultivated it. And that's the thing I think about a lot is, "How did we, how do we do it? How do we make this place?" 'Cause it wasn't always like this. and if I could, if I could bottle that, that would be amazing. Because there's a lot of arts, I mean--coming from a competitive dance world where it wasn't that supportive, and I don't have the same feelings of just like family that loves each other, no matter what, like that's just not how it was. And I still have, I still had a very positive experience, but it just wasn't that thing, because we were consistently competing against each other all the time for everything. And not even just the studios against each other, which those girls in the other studios, I still like went to school with. But also even within the, within the same studio. So it's, it hasn't been my art experience always because of the competition. And because in theater you still have to try out and you still have to audition against, you know, the other people that also want those roles. And even those, those elements exist in this company somehow it has maintained its ability to be a hundred percent supportive, a hundred percent of the time. And if I could make all of the arts feel the way that this feels, I would do it in a heartbeat.
[00:25:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's, it is special. It is very special. So I'm just curious, do any stories stand out to you as being particularly funny? Like, do you have any, you know, backstage moments, stories, or even onstage moments where something happened that you were like, "Hmm, that wasn't intentional."
[00:25:40] Meghan Spencer: My freshman year of high school, I was in "West Side Story," and this was my first, it wasn't like a big role, but it was my first like really big acting experience. And I love "West Side Story," 'cause it was a dance show and it was a love show. And I played the youngest girl in our little group and I was dating the youngest boy in our little group. And he was actually a year younger than me in real life, and it's so funny 'cause now he's much taller, since he's grown up, but we had a little dance moment in the dance scene and we, he did like a cheek to cheek thing. And on opening night, my then-boyfriend, now-husband was sitting in the front row, because he's so sweet and we, something happened where like we missed our cheek to cheek moment, like just a weird split second. And what ended up happening was my lipstick then got smeared all over the side of my face and his face. Hardcore looked like we've been making out.
[00:26:54] And I was 16. And when I got off stage and like saw my face, I was mortified because I was like, "Oh my gosh, my new boyfriend!" And, oh my gosh, and he didn't even notice. And now, now it's just funny, yeah, that, and I think like I have a lot of just like great backstage memories of theater in high school. My, my best friend and I called it the "Blue Light Chronicles," because for those of you that don't know, you use blue lights backstage because it helps you see, but that light doesn't travel into the audience. And so like we still, to this day, we'll like talk about "Blue Light Chronicles" of like all the random stuff that happened backstage in high school and theater. And that stuff is really entertaining, especially since most of those people have now grown up and like have children of their own. It's very entertaining.
[00:27:51] Lindsey Dinneen: That's awesome,  and I love that title. I feel like you two should write a book and get contributors, you know, of these stories that are just so memorable, because I love the fact that, as an audience member, you get to see the final product and  you don't necessarily even realize the hours and hours that go into it. But for those on the opposite side-- I joke a lot because people say, "Oh, it's such a glamorous job." I'm like, I mean, I mean, it is glamorous in some senses, but, but there's a lot that goes into it. But you know, it's just funny and sweat and tears and all the things.
[00:28:34] Meghan Spencer: Yeah. And that's what for me, I think that part about it is one of my favorite parts. Like every single time we get into tech week, and I'm like, "Oh my God, it's tech week. It's going to be exhausting." And the last time my husband was like, "Shut up. You love it." Like, because I do like late nights at the theater where, like, all my favorite people are stuck, hanging out with me for extended periods of time, like in the same space, is my favorite. Yeah, it's exhausting, but it's also so, so fun. And when you're that tired, it's the silliest things happen. Yeah, that's like my favorite part about it. Obviously I love the performances themselves, but also the experience of putting it on and all the things that happen backstage and all the things that have to go right to make it happen. And, I, that stuff I'm super into it.
[00:29:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. It makes the experience very well-rounded and incredibly meaningful. No, I agree. I love, I love tech week. I love performing and, and it just makes it all so great. Well, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.
[00:29:54] Meghan Spencer: Of course.
[00:29:55] Lindsey Dinneen: So the first one is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:30:02]Meghan Spencer: I think art is communicating to the outside world a feeling emotion or something else you want to say, because it can be tangible. It can be movement. It can be makeup. It can be--there's a lot of, there's a lot of ways that art can take forms, but it's always about communicating something.
[00:30:35]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:30:40] Meghan Spencer: I think creation, and this is something that I've been thinking about a lot, actually in the last, in the last year. And even in the last six months as we've been dealing with all, all the crazy that is 2020. I think for me, especially, but I think for artists in general, creation is the part that matters. And we have this like funny joke at our studio of saying, "Well, that's a choice." And normally it means like you're doing something silly or weird or whatever. But at its core, it really means that as an artist, your choices are all that matter. And I can have an opinion about your choices, but at the end of the day, they're your choices to make. And making those choices of how you want to make the art that you're making is on you, and whether or not other people like it or agree with it, or even understand it, doesn't really matter.
[00:31:50]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. And then, and I'll define my terms a little bit here, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And by those terms I'm referring to a, with inclusive, an artist is sort of inviting you into the process, whether that's giving you a backstory or program notes, a title. It doesn't have to be extensive. Just something to give the viewer or participant a little more context to what they've created as an artist. Versus exclusive referring more to someone who presents their art to the world, but there's not necessarily any context or explanation behind it. So, it's more for the viewer to take from it what they will.
[00:32:40] Meghan Spencer: I think that interestingly enough, this ties right back to your last question, that that is just one more choice that an artist gets to make. And whether or not the information that's given can be part of the art because if someone doesn't want you to have any information and just wants you to experience the thing in whatever form it is, then that's part of it too. I think one of my biggest frustrations in life has been someone asking me to describe what an artist is thinking. And this happens a lot, especially in like literary forms. But I don't, I don't think that's my job. I think my job is to experience the thing and then I get to have my own opinions on it.
[00:33:32] And if that experience includes some sort of information to help guide my experience, then that's great. But if the artist doesn't want to include that, then they don't have to. and like we're working on a show-- well, we were supposed to perform this show in April and it got postponed to next April-- but it's--our aerial shows, as with most traditional dance shows--there's no speaking. And this show in particular had a more complicated storyline than we've ever done before. So we used voiceovers so that the audience has an experience where they understand what's going on. And we could have chosen to not help them understand, but in this, in this instance, we made the choice to help them understand what was happening in that way.
[00:34:22]But also, I think some artists enjoy their art to stand alone, and something we tell our students when they're creating acts and building pieces is that they have to make choices. They don't have to be choices that the audience understands. Your audience member--in terms of the way that we normally perform, where we just, you know, set up our rig and get in the air and do the thing and people are there and we never interact with them in any way-- they are not probably going to know the story you're telling, because all they have is your performance and your music. And sometimes those things are just not enough to tell your story, but if you have a story in your heart and in your head, they're going to feel something. And they may not even feel what you feel, but they're going to feel something.
[00:35:14] And that's the thing that matters the most, I think, is to create something that as, as I said before, communicates, and most of the time, especially with the art, I'm making a lot of it has to do with emotion. With my wedding photography, I take it really seriously because I have one photo from my grandparents' wedding. And I was raised with my mom and my grandparents. So my grandparents were like extra, extra close to me growing up. And I only have one photo. It's on my wall in my hallway because that's the start of, you know, my family. And I think that those moments, they matter. And being able to share those moments, you know, with each other, for the rest of your life.
[00:36:08] That's always, my goal is to create imagery that my clients want to hang on the walls for the rest of their life, so that when they're having a tough day in their marriage, which happens in all, all of our marriages, they can look up at the wall and they can see those photos. And remember why they started the thing in the first place. And so even in that commercial side of art, I'm still hoping to create emotions that carry with them through their entire marriage and then honestly, probably into the lives of their children and grandchildren. And so I think for me, it's about making people feel something. And if giving information makes them feel more, than great. But it's not like I like describe what's happening in my wedding photos. Right? Like you can, you can see those moments. And for me, that's enough.
[00:37:07]Lindsey Dinneen: Great answer. And I love your insight into your own, the way that you want to communicate to other people. But I love that perspective. That's, I've not heard it yet spoken quite like that. So that was gorgeous.
[00:37:23]Meghan Spencer: Thanks!
[00:37:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, well again, Megan, thank you so very much for joining us today. I so appreciate it. And I just want to say on behalf of myself and our audience, but also, the world as a whole, thank you for sharing art, because I really do believe in the power that art has to make the world a better, more beautiful, more inclusive place. And I think that when you give and provide that, it's really special. So I want to thank you personally for bringing so many different kinds of art to the world. I think that's wonderful.
[00:38:02] Meghan Spencer: Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, but the thing too is that it's not only benefiting those around you, but it benefits, you know, you as a person too. So all of that, all of that art in my life has definitely positively influenced my life as well.
[00:38:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And if people want to get in touch with you, either for your photography business, or maybe try to come see a show or something like that, is there a way for them to connect?
[00:38:31] Meghan Spencer: Yeah. So for photography, my business is Spencer Studios. You can follow me on Facebook or Instagram. On Instagram, my handle is @spencerstudios. And my website is www.spencerstudiosphotography.com. And then for aerial, if you would like to book an aerial performance, you can check out KansasCityAerialArts.com. And if you want to interact with me, then the best place to do that is probably on Instagram. And my handle is aerialist.meghan, spelled M E G H A N.
[00:39:07]Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, thank you again, Meghan, so very much for joining us. I loved your insights and your stories, and completely agree with you that capturing the moments that matter is really important. And I love the way that you said all of that. So thank you one more time for you being here, and thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:39:42] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.