Artfully Told

Episode 018 - Trenna Reed

In this episode, I welcome Trenna Reed! Trenna is a professional dancer, choreographer, teacher, and the Program Coordinator for the Kansas City Fringe Festival. She shares about the various art forms she's gotten to be a part of, as well as the ins and outs of being on the adminstrative side of the arts. 
 
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Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 18 - Trenna Reed
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses, and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey and I am so excited to have as my guest today, the wonderful Trenna Reed, and Trenna is a artist. She is also, oh my goodness, what should we call you? Like Administrative Organizer Extraordinaire. And there's like an actual job title for you, and I don't want to butcher it, but that's you in my mind...
[00:01:00]Trenna Reed:  I usually just say Program Coordinator...
[00:01:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, okay! Alright!
[00:01:03] Trenna Reed: To put a name to it.
[00:01:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect.
[00:01:05] Trenna Reed: It's basically like, I would say an assistant to the ever fabulous Cheryl Kimmi.
[00:01:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yes. And we'll definitely share a little bit more about that. But also Trenna is an accomplished dancer, choreographer and teacher, and is a lover of the arts in general. And she shares them with the world in a pretty unique way and in kind of an administrative capacity for the Kansas City Fringe Festival. And so I am so excited to have you on. Thank you, Trenna, for joining us today.
[00:01:40] Trenna Reed: Yes, of course. I'm very excited to be here.
[00:01:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and I'd love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe what kind of different arts you dabble in and just, yeah, share with us who you are. Thank you.
[00:01:54] Trenna Reed: Absolutely. Well, art is in my family in several capacities. So my mother is a dance teacher and we still teach dance together to this day, which is really amazing. It's one of my favorite ways to pass the time. And her mother was also a dance teacher and her aunt was a dance teacher. They each had their own studios. So it definitely runs in the family. My aunt was a dance teacher. She recently retired. And my other aunt, this is all on my mom's side, by the way, my other aunt was also a dance teacher early on, and then she transitioned to, I think, teaching English. And I still teach dance. My father, on the other hand, this is how art is also in our family. He was involved in theater and he's a wonderful singer. So he passed that ability to sing onto me. So I did choir and everything like that, all throughout elementary, middle, and high school. And, I still sing whenever I can just not as often. I was trying to get back into voice lessons before all of this craziness started.
[00:03:17] So hopefully after it's calmed down a little bit, I can get back into that as well. And my father actually got his singing from his father. So that trait has been on my father's side of the family. And I was also, as far as other arts that I've been involved in, I've also been involved in theater. I love acting, I haven't been able to pursue it as much lately, but I did theater all throughout high school, and I was in a play in college as well. It was an awesome experience because not a lot of dancers at my college got to be involved in, you know, straight plays.
[00:04:02] So that, that was a really cool experience to go back and revisit that art form in college.  What else am I missing? Oh, I have a four and a half month old daughter named Sage. And she is just wonderful and, you know, has kind of put everything into perspective for me. I feel like it kind of makes art that much more meaningful because I want to pass on my love of art and the importance of it, that concept to her. 'Cause it really shaped my life. So I'm hoping that it can shape hers as well.
[00:04:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. And so when you're not teaching... so, so I guess what else do you do? Well, we got your job title earlier, but tell us a little bit about your involvement in the Kansas City Fringe Festival and that job that you have too.
[00:05:02] Trenna Reed: Sure. So actually for the Fringe Festival, my first year, I started off in, I would say a lighter capacity, as the head of ticket sales, which is called Fringe 411. So, that was my title the first year. And that was really all I worked on, 'cause it's very time consuming. And then, I kind of just stayed involved with the organization throughout the year after that. And then when it came back around time to do the festival in 2019, I was in a position where I could step up and on a larger role. And Cheryl's program coordinator had left 'cause she got a job offer somewhere else and started to go in a different direction with her career.
[00:05:55] So Cheryl asked me to kind of step up at least, you know, we weren't sure if it was going to be temporary until she found someone else, 'cause I still have other jobs too. So I wasn't, I didn't know if I could take on the program coordinator position full on, but I was at least going to step in for a little while until they figured out if they could find someone else to fill that slot on the team. So last year was my first year as Program Coordinator for the Fringe Festival. And I learned a lot. I continue to learn. There are so many aspects to putting on a festival and, when I was in college, I was on the performance track. So I didn't have a ton of opportunities to do behind-the-scenes work, besides the costuming work that I did.
[00:06:53] And working for the Fringe Festival has really allowed me to take on some more of those management roles, which I, I enjoy. I do. I didn't think that I would be that type of person to be in an administrative role, but it's really gratifying at the end of everything. And, you know, it teaches you patience and communication skills, to say the least.
[00:07:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:26] Trenna Reed: Yeah. It's just, it's been an amazing experience. And I mean, this time around will be a whole different animal because of everything going on. So everything's kind of up in the air with the festival right now, but, you know, the way things are going, unless we have to shut back down again, I think we'll be able to do the festival in some capacity.
[00:07:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Great.
[00:07:52] Trenna Reed: Whether that's trying to do some things virtually or just condensing it to like two weekends, we're going to try and think of creative ways to keep it going. 'Cause we really don't want to just have to shut it down completely for this year and lose that momentum, right?
[00:08:11]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and, just to give our audience some perspective who might not be familiar with the Fringe Festival, do you mind sharing some stats about the magnitude of what the Fringe Festival typically is, as far as all the different groups you're trying to organize and coordinate? 
[00:08:31] Trenna Reed: Yeah, for sure.
[00:08:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, ' cause that's amazing.
[00:08:35] Trenna Reed: Yeah. I can definitely give you some ballpark. I can't think off the top of my head of what attendance is, but our festival is a pretty large festival. There's lots of different Fringe Festivals around the world. Some of them are really tiny and some of them are huge. Like Orlando Fringe is one of the biggest in the US, and I think put on something like 150 shows or something, or 150 different productions, which is crazy. We do around 75 productions. So that means there's 75 different performance groups or performers. If it's just a one person show, and each of those shows has usually five slots in which they perform. So we're coordinating, you know, 75 times five--I can't do that math in my head how many actual individual shows--and then we usually work with, I would say, between 500 and 750 artists within that. So, I didn't realize it was that many people until I was trying to go through and get some demographics. For our grant writers, we have to kind of go into detail about, you know, how many people are involved, how many artists are involved, our attendance, things like that. So I was going through and looking at all of the waivers that the performers have to fill out out. And I was like, "Oh my God, I didn't realize we have over, easily over 500 people involved in this festival, just on the performing side."
[00:10:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.
[00:10:23] Trenna Reed: Yeah, it's, it's crazy. And it runs for 10 days. And, you know, we'll usually--like the first, well, I guess technically two weeks--because we start off with our visual arts, which is also another component of it. So that's adding another, I think like around 50 people, but another component of it that we're coordinating at the same time. And, you know, we've actually been trying to grow that aspect of it a little bit more. We don't want the visual artists to feel like they're in the background. So we usually start off with our visual arts opening. And that'll be usually--I think on a Sunday is when we usually do it. And then the following Friday is when the actual performances start for the festival and then the performances will go for 10 days. So it's a lot. We have a lot of volunteers that help and we wouldn't be able to do it without our amazing volunteer base.
[00:11:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it is an undertaking. I commend you for your patience and your adaptability, because so much that you guys do and pour into that festival every year. So yes.
[00:11:46] Trenna Reed: You have to have some sort of faith in humanity to be able to do that.
[00:11:52] Lindsey Dinneen: That seems, that seems right. Oh my goodness. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And, I know you probably have like a zillion stories just from the festival, from your own art experiences, but does anything kind of stand out as something you wanted to share today?
[00:12:11] Trenna Reed: Hmm, I'm trying to think of specifically for the festival, because there's so much happening every day during the festival. And, well, this is, so I just saw-- this was a social media post on Mother's Day, and this is just like a little story to put it into perspective how hard our director for the festival works. So her birthday is June, I think it's June 12th? Or sometime around then. And, she was, I think, out to eat with her family. And her son, Brent, posted that she had forgotten that it was her birthday.
[00:12:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.
[00:12:59] Trenna Reed: And I mean, this is, you know, par for the course for Cheryl, because she works so hard and never stops that she'll forget it's her birthday...
[00:13:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my word...
[00:13:11]Trenna Reed:  ...until her family reminds her. I mean, because that's about a month away until the festival is opening.  So we're getting pretty into the thick of it at that point.
[00:13:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.
[00:13:22] Trenna Reed: So, I mean, I have lots of little stories like that about Cheryl and she's just a peach. She's best. And I, we all love working for her and she is the heart and soul of the festival and her positive energy just exudes and it shapes the experience of the festival. And, she's always kind and patient, but she also knows when she has to draw the line and give tough love sometimes. So I think finding the balance for that is one of her strengths.
[00:14:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think so too. She is a remarkable woman. And yeah, I'm a huge fan. I think everyone who meets her are. You know, it's because she's just, like you said, she she's so kind and she's so inclusive, and then when she needs to put her foot down, she can. But until that time, she's just the loveliest, so much fun. I just, I love her. Yeah.
[00:14:34] Trenna Reed: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I was just thinking of another, like, this is just kind of a glimpse into what it's like behind the scenes. So,  when we're, like at the end of the night, what we do is we tally--well, that's a simplistic way to put it--but we figure out the ticket sales, and try and make sure that everything balances out, 'cause we keep track of the attendance of each show. 'Cause at the end of the festival, we handout the Best Of awards. And currently the Best Of is based on attendance for your show. So, you know, whoever has the most attendance for a certain venue wins best of that venue. So what we have to do at the end of each night is we have to count all the money, count all the tickets that we've received, see how many comps were used. And when we got down to the end of the festival and we're trying to figure out Best Of we were--you know, it's like 11:45 at night, and we're trying to get it out by midnight. But our last show for the night ended at, I think, 11:30. So, we're waiting for the last envelopes of the ticket tallies to come back and there's a couple of shows that are within one person in the audience to determine who won. And, I mean, it was like that for several of them.
[00:16:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.
[00:16:13] Trenna Reed: So, and you know, sometimes the numbers don't add up and we're just like, I don't know if this is accurate, or how we can make sure that we have the most accurate count because the numbers aren't adding up.
[00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: So because you know, they're cross referencing. Is that correct? Sorry to interrupt, but just for context with somebody who doesn't know, 'cause you're cross referencing, from the usher count versus ticket sales or? Okay.
[00:16:38] Trenna Reed: Correct.
[00:16:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:16:40] Trenna Reed: So we have the usher count and then we use our online ticket platform called Ticketleap. And some of our volunteers are not as familiar with technology. So sometimes they have issues getting everything entered into Ticketleap. And it's also stressful for them when they're trying to get people checked in and seated. So sometimes they don't have time to enter it in as accurately as possible. So, it's just a lot of different factors going into it that can affect the way the numbers turn out at the end. 
[00:17:16] Lindsey Dinneen: So I know that it's been close a few years, but oh my goodness, I can't believe within maybe one audience member. It's that close? Oh, my word that's amazing.
[00:17:27] Trenna Reed: It was, it was stressful. I think we got the numbers out close to midnight. I honestly don't remember. I was probably delirious by that point.
[00:17:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yes. Let's let's talk about Trenna for a second, folks. So, okay. So I had met Trenna-- because my company also performs at the Fringe Festival--so I had met Trenna briefly, but then we didn't actually, like, sit down and have a conversation until I think August, maybe?
[00:18:01] Trenna Reed: Yeah, it was the beginning of August.
[00:18:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so, and you know, and at that time, I found out she was pregnant. She shared that with me. And I just remember thinking like, "What? You just literally changed your entire sleep schedule for the Fringe Festival, because first of all, that is like 14 days of chaos." Oh my word. And then she's pregnant and she's such a powerhouse, still wants to keep, you know, doing all the things and, you know, up until her due date. So speaking of that, I was privileged enough to have Trenna as one of the choreographers for my company's Nutcracker production, which we called "Cracked!" And, so it was an original show, all original choreography to kind of celebrate Kansas City. So it's a little more unique in that way. And, Trenna is choreographing and setting the choreography and is at our shows being our Backstage Coordinator. And she's amazing. And--okay-- and she's taking our warmup classes. And how, how much time did you have left before you were about to get birth?
[00:19:12] Trenna Reed: I had about two and a half weeks. I felt pretty good. So I tried to keep active. Actually I'd say that the first trimester, I mean, you know, the first trimester is usually comparable with the third in that it's pretty hard. But I would say like my energy level was definitely lower for the first trimester than it was for the third. And I mean, you know, I just had so many things going on in November and December, so I didn't really have a choice.
[00:19:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.
[00:19:52] Trenna Reed: You know, well, and my husband had to kind of put into perspective that I needed to slow down because I'm not good at taking care of myself in that sense, because I feel better when I stay busy. But sometimes I get to the point where I don't know how to balance my life because I try and make myself so busy. So, I was going to try and keep teaching until like, I think a week before my due date, or maybe like a week and a half before, and finally, you know, I was getting so tired from everything that was going on. And then he had to have a serious conversation with me and was like, you can't keep just going on like normal. So I'm really glad that he helped me put that into perspective because I needed that wake up call.
[00:20:48] Lindsey Dinneen: No, literally, folks, she seriously is a super woman. She shows up to every show that we did and our dress rehearsal and she's wearing heels, okay, looks stunning, of course, takes the ballet warmup class, and the. Does all the backstage coordinating and in theory, literally could give birth at any time. Like, yeah, just amazing.
[00:21:14] Trenna Reed: Can we talk about your sister, though?
[00:21:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah.
[00:21:18] Trenna Reed: I had no idea that what she was, what, seven and a half months pregnant at that time? I, I, well, I mean, once I found out that she was pregnant, I was like, "Maybe she's like four or five months pregnant?" No, no. Seven months pregnant. Wow. I can't imagine doing Sugar Plum and being seven months pregnant.
[00:21:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, okay. So my sister is another superwoman. Yeah. She danced one of the quintessential roles of the Nutcracker which is basically the Sugar Plum Fairy role. We called it something different in our show, but, on pointe, plus she did Snow. Plus she was in all the group scenes, right? Like all the party scenes and Flowers, which was an insane dance. I'm just going to throw that out there. Yeah, I choreographed it. I can say that.
[00:22:08] Trenna Reed: Standing backstage and watching everyone on the side of the stage, like, heaving for breaths, you know, and Sophie had like some respiratory issues going on. She had to take her inhaler backstage. And I was like, I have been there. I know how that feels. I had to do that in that, I was the Sugar Plum for our production when my dance studio did the Nutcracker, and in between like the, variation and the Coda I had to take a couple puffs of my inhaler to get through it.
[00:22:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I mean, so the Nutcracker is probably a difficult ballet for anyone involved, but with a smaller company, I mean, I make this joke, but it's, it's reality--you're either dancing or you're changing. There's no downtime. So as soon as those first notes of the, you know, opening number happen, you just...two hours, well, I don't know if it's quite two hours, but an hour and a half of like cardio. Yes. Yeah. And my sister's doing this seven and a half months pregnant and rocking it. It was a miracle. But anyway. Yeah. So I'm just curious, Trenna, is there like one thing that you maybe were surprised by, or that you learned? You know, that could be like anything about art or about organization or people or whatever, like something that's kind of stood out as maybe like unexpected when you started taking over the coordination of the Fringe Fest .
[00:23:41] Trenna Reed: I think the thing that's surprised me the most is just, you know, I'm so used to being on the performing side of it and I just, I get so much joy from that. I never knew that you can get the same kind of feeling when you're working behind the scenes for something as well. Because, you know, I would just describe--like when I'm on stage, I just feel like a different part of my soul has awakened. I'm getting really deep here, but that's the best way I can describe it. And towards the end of the festival, when we've done all the grunt work and everything is kind of coming together, it's that same feeling where I feel like the artist in me has come to the forefront, and it makes you fall in love with your art form even more. Or fall in love with, I guess, the Fringe Festival and what it represents, even more. Yeah, I just, I was surprised that I could get that Feeling from being a Program Coordinator as well.
[00:24:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I can relate, and that is really interesting. And that's great to know too, about yourself, that you do have so many different, I dunno, ways to--when you engage in the arts in general, you have then multiple avenues that allow you to feel that joy, which is awesome. Yeah, that's really cool.
[00:25:17] Trenna Reed: Absolutely. And, you know, I felt that same thing with costuming when my Alma Mater asked me to come back and fill in for the Costume Mistress position at Oklahoma City University for the dance program, because their costume mistress was having her second baby. And I had worked in the costume shop, while I was there getting my degree for my work study, and I had been heavily involved in that costume shop and knew the way that it operated and was familiar with the staff. So they asked me to come back and head that up for a couple of months. And, I was super nervous because the extent of my costuming was being involved in dance and theater and being around costumes, knowing how to sew once I got to college and the work that I had done in the costume shop. Besides that, I don't really have a background in like costume design or anything like that.
[00:26:18]So I was just kind of going in there and winging it. And, it was a really, really great feeling at the end of it, knowing that I had, helped to create and manage this amazing team, 'cause the students that work in the costume shop, I would not have been able to do that job if they had not been there to lead each other and really step up to the plate while the Costume Mistress was gone. And you know, I got that same feeling, watching the shows and watching the costumes on stage and seeing everything come to fruition, I guess. And knowing that I had made some of the decisions that contributed to the costumes working. So that, that was a really incredible experience too. And, you know, I don't know if I'll ever be like the costume designer or anything like that. I thought about exploring that avenue as well, but maybe that'll be something that I try to delve into a little bit more later in life. But you know, it was that same feeling of the artist in me awakening, I guess.
[00:27:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And representing in a different way than, you know, than you had really explored before.
[00:27:49] Trenna Reed: Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's really neat. Well, thank you so much for sharing just about your experience. And I love hearing behind-the-scenes stories and, just, you know, it's so funny-- it's wonderful as an audience member, you get to kind of see the final picture and you don't get to see necessarily everything that goes into it. But I, I love the real talk of behind-the-scenes, 'cause there's a lot to it and it can get messy and it can, and it's difficult, but you look at the end result and you're like, wow, that's, that's pretty cool.
[00:28:26] Trenna Reed: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a gratifying experience.
[00:28:30]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. Well, I just have a couple questions that I like to ask my guests, if you don't mind me asking you. Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:28:46] Trenna Reed: Hmm, I would say art is human expression, because I guess the way that I think about it is, of all the species on this planet, as far as we know, humans are really the only ones who can convey art and understand art. I guess dogs can watch TV, but you know, they don't really comprehend what's going on, so that, I would say, it's a human expression. And, for me it's just, it's art is love and passion, and it's how we express those emotions or any emotions, which is such an important part of being a human being.
[00:29:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:29:53] Trenna Reed: Hmm.  I think probably connecting to the audience, whether it be the person looking at your painting, or the person watching you perform, or watching the movie you created, just finding some way to connect to the people who are consuming that art.
[00:30:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That is a very unique answer. I've never heard somebody describe it like that before, and I think that's incredibly important. Thank you.
[00:30:33] Trenna Reed: Yeah.
[00:30:34] Lindsey Dinneen: And then my final question, and then I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So what I mean by that is exclusive kind of referring to an artist creates something, they share it with the world and then they let the world interpret it the way that they will. So they don't really provide context. Maybe there's not a title, maybe you don't know the inspiration behind it. Versus inclusive where the artist does share something. So maybe it's program notes or maybe it's a description, or the inspiration behind. It is basically some context so that the audience has a hint of what's going on.
[00:31:16] Trenna Reed: Right. That's a good question, but I really think it depends on, it depends on the artist and it depends on the audience or the consumer of the art. Because, I mean, for me, sometimes I do like getting that context and it helps me understand what's going on better. And I feel like I have a better experience with that art form when I have that insight. But on the other hand, like, you know, like for instance, last night I was watching a  show called Ray Donovan on, I think it's on Showtime. And there was a part where he picked up a Bible. And when he turned to the front of it, you see a cross. And then in the song that was playing, you hear an organ, they just kind of like snuck that in there as a sort of symbolism, and connecting the music to what was on screen. And it was cool for me to make that discovery on my own, as opposed to being told, "Hey, we put this in here because of this." You know what I mean?
[00:32:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely.
[00:32:33] Trenna Reed: So I think it depends on the person looking or experiencing the art, and how that artist wants to connect with their audience. Do they want them to figure it out on their own because it will be more meaningful that way? Or is it so abstract that they need some sort of context to be able to fully grasp and appreciate that art?
[00:33:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense to me. Well, thank you again so much, Trenna, for being my guest today. I really appreciate it. And I just want to say on behalf of myself, but not just on behalf of myself, on behalf of the world, I really appreciate that you share your art with the world, whether that's you're dancing, you're choreographing, teaching. But just all the ways that you bring art to the world world, even, you know, singing or costume design and, and administration, the organization of it is so important. And so I just want to say thank you because when you bring that to the world, I think you make it a more beautiful place. So I appreciate that you share, and yeah.
[00:33:45] Trenna Reed: Thank you so much.
[00:33:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Well, thank you also, everyone who has listened to this episode, if you feel as inspired as I do, I would love for you to share it with maybe a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:34:02]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much! And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

Episode 017 - Liza Lomax

In this episode, I welcome Liza Lomax! She is the founder of Love Your Body Coaching, and helps women fully accept and embrace themselves. She shares several stories about how art has not only impacted and inspired her own life, but also that of her clients' lives as well. As an empath, Liza is highly intuitive and discusses how that impacts her relationship with art. 
 
Get in touch with Liza Lomax: https://www.facebook.com/liza.lomax | www.lizalomax.com | www.instagram.com/lizalomax | www.twitter.com/liza_lomax 
Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart 
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 17 - Liza Lomax
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told! I'm Lindsey, and I am very delighted to have as my guest today, Liza Lomax, and she is a coach, but she, that just like barely scratches the surface. And I'm so excited to share her with you today because she has an incredible story about her own trajectory, which led her to be a coach, but also just in general, her life story is incredible. And her stories about how art has kind of been weaving through her life is also incredible. And I'm just so excited that you're here, Liza. So thank you for joining us today.
[00:01:12] Liza Lomax: Thank you for having me. I'm super excited.
[00:01:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Awesome. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about yourself and your story or what kind of, however you want to introduce who you are? I would love that!
[00:01:26] Liza Lomax: For sure. So I'm a body image coach. My business is called Love Your Body Coaching. What is that? So I help women go from self-loathing to self-loving. I help women be able to look at themselves naked in the mirror and fully, truly, madly, deeply accept themselves and love themselves as the reflection that they see staring back at them.
[00:01:50]I have my own personal transformation story. It is quite a story, but we don't have hours and hours, so I will condense it a little bit for everybody. As a teenager, I suffered from two EDs [eating disorders]. I suffered from anorexia and overeating, so binge eating, and I went from one end of the spectrum to the other. And by the time I was 26, I weighed 300 pounds. I was borderline diabetic. I had high cholesterol. I had high blood pressure. I had a two year old at the time and the doctor told me that if I didn't lose weight, I wasn't going to live to see him turn five. And again, he was two at the time. So I was like, well, I want to live to see my son. So I'll lose the weight.
[00:02:37]Now I came from a very religious background, a very religious household. And, you know, as all children, when right away when we're little we're, you know, when we're told they have to look a certain way and dress a certain way and act a certain way and be a certain way. And when we're not those ways, we try to fix them. And that's where that not good enough story starts. And then it, you know, harbors is in our brains until there until we're an adult. And then that's all we think about is that we're not good enough. We're not special enough. We're not beautiful enough or not pretty enough. We're not this, we're not that.
[00:03:10] And I really had that not-good-enough story really just stick in my brain so ingrainly deeply in there that I just, I didn't care about myself. I didn't love myself. I literally hated myself. I had low self esteem. I would look in the mirror and I would hate the person that was staring back at me. I suffered from body dysmorphia. And so I literally would see a monster in the mirror when I did look in the mirror. And so when I was 300 pounds and I was sitting in the doctor's office and he's telling me I've got to die. I'm like, okay, well, I got to do something. So I lost 105 pounds in 13 months.
[00:03:52] However, I didn't change my mindset and I continue to yo-yo over and over and over. I still had those same behaviors with same habits, so same limiting beliefs. And it took me probably about five or six years later. I literally hit rock bottom. And I was addicted to diet pills. I was a heavy drinker. I did things to my body nobody should ever do to themselves. I had such a low self esteem. I hated myself, hated everything about me. I put myself in situations where I should have been killed, and whether you believe in God, higher source, higher power, whatever you believe--I really believe that God just was telling me that I needed to change and something needed to give.
[00:04:34] And because I've been a people pleaser, I've been a doormat, I've been a caregiver. I have taken care of everybody around me. I'm a lover of love. I love people. I love to give myself and I've given so much of myself to everybody else that I've never given myself myself. If that makes sense. I've never given anything to me. And I've never loved myself. Truly madly, deeply loved myself. And so it sent me on this mission to find me, to find my authentic self, to find who I am, to love myself, to heal all those wounds, to reframe, retrain those limiting beliefs, those behaviors, those stories that I created, you know, since I was a child. And, you know, create new habits, new beliefs and new behaviors.
[00:05:21] And, so I went in, got certified in multiple, a multitude of different things and, you know, and went and studied every self help book and every guru and everybody out there. And so I had all these tools in my toolbox because I knew that there were other women out there that struggled. There are other women out there that needed my help. And because I'm such a lover of love and lover of people, I knew my mission in this world was to love people and was to give love and show people how to love, and show women how to love themselves, just the way they are. And through all this process, art was really incorporated in my life. And I never really thought about it because it was just, it came second nature to me. And, when I was 14, I started writing poetry. And I channel a lot, so I'm an empath. I'm highly intuitive, and so I channel a lot of people's emotions, including my emotions, by myself.
[00:06:17] So writing was a huge thing for me. Writing poetry was a huge thing for me and during some really, really dark times, I noticed I found this love for painting, and so I would paint. I used painting as a way to express my emotions and to get them out. So for me, it was like a way of getting them out of my, out of my body, and putting them somewhere else so that I didn't have to hold onto them anymore. That was my way of releasing it. Everybody has their own way of releasing things. That was my way of releasing. And I really felt that it really helped me. It was very beneficial for me and really helped me get through some really dark times. And, now I use that, I incorporate it in my coaching. I use that as a healthy, emotional outlet to go to when you're struggling or when you have something, you know, you need to release those emotions. Art and drawing and painting and writing are great ways to release those emotions. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.
[00:07:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:07:25] Liza Lomax: Yes, you're very welcome. Thank you.
[00:07:28]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So your story is just incredibly powerful. And I love the fact that now you are taking, obviously a very difficult journey that you've been through, to empower not only yourself, but other women who probably have gone through very similar things and felt, you know, very similarly and and I just think that's an incredible gift that you're giving.   I would love to dive a little bit deeper into some of the ways that art has had an impact in your journey. If you don't mind, if any stories come to mind as to, maybe specifically, if there's anything in particular that kind of stands out as being truly helpful in that journey. And, and I know before we started recording, we had talked about how you even encourage in your coaching this to be an outlet. So I'm just, I'm super curious to hear a little bit more about that if that's okay.
[00:08:22] Liza Lomax: Oh yeah, for sure! And actually one story comes to mind. I, you know, not only went through a lot of stuff. I also had a lot of toxicity in my life and I had a lot of people, places and things is what I call them. And I went from one abusive relationship to another and in different ways of abusiveness. And I remember this one time that I started painting again. And it was a picture of--in my head, I had this picture of me standing in darkness and all I had was a little, a little bitty lamp. And I was holding onto this lamp and there was just this little bit of glimmer of light. And there was all this darkness around me and it symbolized what my life was like at that time. And I had a lot of darkness around me. I had a lot of toxicity in my life. I was in a very abusive relationship, mentally and not physically, but mentally and emotionally abusive. And I remember I'm painting this thing and I remember that person coming up and ridiculing me about this painting in this picture, that it looks like something that I'm, I'm not going to say on, on this call, but referenced it being something just really disgusting and in a space that just was not good. And, I could have easily scratched it and ripped it up and tore it away or threw it away.
[00:09:55] You know, I could have easily have done something like that, which my past self probably would have. Because I'm like, "Oh, well I don't live up to this person's expectations." So I'm just gonna, I'm just going to do something else. But no, I had the mindset that, no, I'm going to finish this painting 'cause it's something that I need to do and I need to get it out. And if you could just envision a little girl, standing in a big dark forest and all that she has is the little light in her lamp. And, that was the picture--was just this, all this darkness around but I knew that there was some light at the end of the tunnel.  And I knew that I was going to get through whatever the situation that I was in at the time I was going to get through it because I had my light and whether it was super, super tiny, it didn't matter, 'cause it was still light in that darkness.
[00:10:47]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Do you still have that painting?
[00:10:51]Liza Lomax: It's somewhere in storage.
[00:10:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah?
[00:10:54] Liza Lomax: 'Cause we travel me and my partner travel a lot, so it's in storage somewhere, but...
[00:11:00] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm glad you kept it.
[00:11:03] Liza Lomax: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it, yeah, it was a very pivotal time and in my life at that time, when I drew that. Yeah, very memorable to me.
[00:11:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And so I know that you also encourage your clients to use art as an outlet. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about that?
[00:11:25] Liza Lomax: Yeah. So in my program, there's a module that we go through called Healthy Emotional Outlets. And whether it's EFT or whether it's energy healing work, whether it's exercising, some of the other things I've incorporated are music and drawing and painting and writing. And, one of the things I encourage right away when my clients start a program with me is to start journaling and start writing. Writing for me has always been a huge impact. And, so writing right away and using art as a way to get your emotions out and to be able to--cause some, I mean, we don't, we're emotional beings. I mean, we base every choice, every decision, everything that we make is on emotions. And you know, a lot of times we're told that we can't show our emotions and we can't be emotional and you know, "I'll give you something to cry about."
[00:12:24] You know? I mean, there's these things that we're told that when our kids that we know we can't, we can't do these things. And so we grow up pushing our emotions down and down and down, and we have such a hard time releasing those. And so using art as a way to release those emotions is huge. It's very impactful because if you don't know how to release them, I really believe that art is a good way of releasing those emotions.
[00:12:52] Lindsey Dinneen: And when you encourage your clients to use that as an outlet, which I love--I'm super biased as an artist myself--but I love that you do that, because it can make such a difference--is it something where do you ever get any kind of pushback where people think, "Well, I'm not an artist or, you know, I, I can't draw or I can't paint." Or is that part of like a mindset that you're also working to help kind of overcome? The "I can't" or "I don't" kind of thing associated with art?
[00:13:24] Liza Lomax: Yes, because yes, we can do things. We just choose not to do them. So I tell people I'm like, you can do something, you just choose not to do them. And you know, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. It's there and everybody always gives it a least a chance, a go. And I love it when I hear people say that they can't draw or they can't sing. And it's like, well, first of all, you can sing. It just might not be very good. And you can draw. It just might not be very good. So, you know, saying that you can't do something is not true. It's never true because you can do it. Just so, so it doesn't matter whether it doesn't look good to you or to somebody else or to whomever. You're still getting that out and still getting those emotions out and still releasing what you need to release. So I don't believe in the word "I can't." It's always, you choose not to.
[00:14:22] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. I love that so much. Oh my goodness. Yeah, because I think it's so important--and I love the way that you worded it--it is so important that we go into something that new for us. And maybe we've never expressed ourselves in that way before, but we go into it saying it's possible. I might not be very good at it, but that doesn't-- it shouldn't decrease even the attempt at it. I mean, I'm not brilliant at drawing, but I'll do it. I can kind of draw a little bit, some stick figures.
[00:14:57] Liza Lomax: Right, right! If it's a whole, a whole page of stick figures. Okay. So be it. That's your art. It's okay. Art is art is art is art. It doesn't matter what it is.
[00:15:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. I love it. Yes. So do you personally continue to engage in the arts? I mean, are you still kind of active as an artist? I know different seasons lead to different things, but, are you still kind of enjoying arts as well?
[00:15:24] Liza Lomax: Yes. I mean, all the time I'm constantly doodling or writing. You know, something comes to my mind, I'll write it down. So, but with all the arts, you know, I did theater for 15 years and that was a huge impact in my life as well. I've always incorporated lots of art into my world. And, music is also a huge form of the arts and going and listening to music and really listening to the melodies and the silence behind it. And that has an impact on how you feel too. Music is a huge thing too, for me. I still doodle, I still draw. I travel a lot, so I can't always just sit and get an easel up and start painting, but when I get an opportunity, I'll take it.
[00:16:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing about your own life journey and sharing about what you're doing now and how you're helping people. And all of that is so wonderful. So thank you for sharing that with us. I really appreciate it.
[00:16:29] Liza Lomax: Thank you.
[00:16:30] Lindsey Dinneen: And, I would love if it's okay with you, I always ask the same three questions to my guests. So I'm just curious about your opinions on them, if you're okay with that.
[00:16:40] Liza Lomax: Yes, for sure.
[00:16:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:16:48]Liza Lomax: Oh, wow. That's a good question. Oh, how would I, how would you describe it? To me, art is an emotion. it's anger. It's sadness. It's happy. It's frustration. It's irritation. It's gratefulness. It's blessings. When I look at art, I can feel what the artist was portraying at that time because I'm an empath. So looking at art is very impactful for me because I can see it and I can feel what the person was trying to express or trying to convey. You know, there's so many pieces of artwork where people are like, they don't understand it. They don't get it. Like, what is this? It looks just like a bunch of jumbly blobs on a canvas, and I can look at it and I can see what they were feeling and what they were doing and how they were--what they were trying to convey through the art. So to me, it's--art is emotions. If that makes any sense.
[00:17:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It absolutely does. That's a great answer and a unique one. I haven't heard it expressed quite like that before, so I love it. Thank you. Okay. So what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:18:07]The most important role of an artist... being themselves and being their authentic selves. I think, you know, artists take a risk at everything that they do because you could be easily rejected or easily accepted. And if you show your authenticity through your work in anything that you do, not just art, but I mean, we're talking about art right now, but to show your authenticity through your work, makes it very valuable.
[00:18:38]That's another great answer. Okay. And my last question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So by inclusive, I'm referring to an artist who, when they share their art with the world, that you know a little bit of context behind it now. So whether that's a title or program notes or what inspired this piece or whatever. So you have a little bit of context going into it as an audience or as a observer. Versus exclusive being the artist shares their work and doesn't necessarily provide any context to it and just lets the observer take from it what they will, if that makes sense.
[00:19:28]Liza Lomax: I, so when I go into a museum, I go in and I see art. I don't read the little note cards or the little things, the little plaques next to it, because I like to see the art for what it really is, and I don't like to be influenced on what, where, what time it was done or what year it was done or who it was done by, or what the explanation was. So I like to look at it and just look at it for the actual art. I don't read anything about the artists. So I would say exclusive, because it's like, to me, I want to see the art. I don't necessarily need to know about the history or the background or why it was created. I just want to see just the art.
[00:20:15]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. All right. Excellent. Well, and you have a really unique perspective, I think too, because like you shared with us earlier--when you look at a piece of art or experience art, you are able to draw from it emotions and feelings and all those kinds of things that maybe someone who isn't as empathic would find. So that's a pretty unique perspective too, which I love. So, yeah! Well, again, thank you so much for being a part of this. Is there a way for us to get in contact with you and learn more if anyone would like to do so?
[00:20:54] Liza Lomax: Yes. So I am, of course, on all the platforms. I'm on Facebook under Liza Lomax. I'm on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. My website's being redesigned right now but you can check it out and check more of my story out. It's just lizalomax.com. But the best way to get ahold of me is probably Facebook. And then, my email address is just lizalomax77@gmail.com.
[00:21:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you, Liza. Well, thank you also to all of you who are listening to this episode, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am at the moment, I would love for you to share it with a friend or two, and please feel free to get in touch with Liza. She is absolutely wonderful as you can tell from just this brief conversation with her. Obviously she has a lot to share with the world and give, and we will catch you next time.
[00:21:52] Do you have a story to share with us? We would love that so much, and I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

Episode 016 - Elna VanGreuning

In this episode, I welcome Elna VanGreuning! Elna graces us with a masterclass on the history of lace and lacemaking, from its very beginnings to how we can get involved today. Originally from South Africa, Elna brings her rich knowledge of lace and her own experiences in lacemaking to dive deep into one of the loveliest art forms. 
 
The International Organization of Lace: https://internationalorganizationoflace.org/
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off all purchases!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 16 - Elna VanGreuning
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna VanGreuning: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.
[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey, and I am so excited to share with you a wonderful, wonderful guest that I get to have on my episode today. Her name is Elna VanGreuning, and she is originally from South Africa. And I'll let her tell you a little bit more about herself, but I have the privilege to call her my aunt adopted. I had the privilege of growing up, and getting to know her, and have many, many fond memories of spending afternoons at her lovely house, having tea, learning the correct way to have tea.  I just am so blessed to have her in my life, but I am extremely excited to share her with you all today. She is a very, very accomplished woman in many avenues. And one of the things that she does is lace making. And so I'm just thrilled to hear all of her stories about that. So thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:36]Elna VanGreuning: Thank you, Lindsey. I feel honored that you even invited me for this. Yes, I'm from South Africa, but I've been in the US now almost 26 years. I'm also a US citizen. So I am very much American and love living in the Reston area. So a little bit about my life, in how I got involved in that. Way back in 1975, when I was a young school teacher, a friend of mine, in the middle of the country that actually taught lace classes and she started with that. And then we got married in 1976 and she made us a beautiful lace handkerchief embroidered with all the details.
[00:02:26] So that's how I initially even got to know about lace, and how you make lace. Previous to that, I was in Belgium in 1974 and I went to Bruges and Brussels and saw all the beautiful lace, little shops and was intrigued, but I didn't really know how you make it. So then time went on and we ended up in Toronto in 1980, for 18 months. And I couldn't work. I couldn't get a work permit. Only my husband could. And I got bored, looked at the newspaper and found a woman, a Dutch woman, teaching lace. So I thought, well, I might as well try this. Well, I've got nothing else to do. And that's how I started making lace. So when I went back to South Africa in 1981, it was wonderful to connect with my friend, and we started this lace adventure together. And I got very involved. I even taught lace for quite a while, had quite a few students until we came to the US in 1994. Since then I've not made a lot of lace. Life just took over here. I did connect with a lace group in Reston for a while, and then it sort of dwindled, but I've got a nice lace collection that I've put together over the years and added to. And so, I've always kept my interest and therefore, you know, that's how I got involved in lacemaking.
[00:04:09]Lindsey Dinneen: That is wonderful. I did not know that story. I love the fact that you, were bored, so you just decided to take up this new adventure. That's amazing.
[00:04:19]Elna VanGreuning: Yes, I've always loved doing handcrafts. I was a home ec[onomics] teacher. So you can imagine that I did weaving, and I took a weaving course in Toronto as well. But lace was sort of the unusual thing, and I thought, Whoa, this is on my doorstep. Why, why don't I pursue this? So I've loved embroidery and all of this, and I also think that handiwork for me, it's really been a wonderful-- it's a pastime, but also it's a way of relaxing. There's a way of expression expressing your feelings and your artistic capabilities. I can't draw, but I can do fine handwork and appreciate it. So I think that's the way I, I really enjoyed getting involved in lace and it's, it's so beautiful for the eye in any way. And you can sit down, work on your pillow with beautiful classic music in the background, or sit outside and enjoy fresh air so it is something you can take with you. I mean, you can take your pillow when you go to a friend or you can take it on vacation. Not, not practical if you're flying, but if you're driving in a car. So yes, that's, that's how I got involved.
[00:05:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. You have some stories to share with us about the origin of lace and different techniques or styles, but I would love for you to take it away because I am very excited to learn along with everyone else.
[00:05:52]Elna VanGreuning: Okay, thank you. Well, let me start off with the history of lace. Lace is indisputably a very old form of art. It's rather sad that very little is known about the birth of lace as we know it today and the existing resources are very few and very superficial. Indeed the history of lace cannot be separated from the history of clothing construction. And as a matter of fact, fashion has always driven the lace production, whether it was hand or machine lace, as we know it today. It's obvious that humans from the earliest times had a need or longing to decorate clothing, and it never changed or diminished. Lace thus evolved out of this need. The Egyptian lace making techniques unfortunately disappeared for many centuries. It was only through pictorial evidence from the late 15th century we could see that simple platitude laces appeared on costumes, for example. And, when printing became popular or available, we now know of books. There was one book, 1561, printed in Zurich that mentioned the amount or the look of lace that was actually ordered from Italy in the previous century, in the 15th century.
[00:07:20] So we know that after the Middle Ages, lace definitely came back. Lace was surely inspired by the open effect of the renowned Venetian embroidery . In time, instead of cutting out expensive fabric, foundation threads were laid onto a temporary backing and with a needle, a form of lace was made and it was called Punto in Aria. This was all done in Venetia, or Venice, because we know that the Venetians were very big on trading with the East. And on the Island of Burano just outside of Venice today, they still have a whole community of lacemakers that actually makes this. The Venitian trade with the Far East also brought very fine silk threads to Europe.
[00:08:11]There is no proof that Asia ever made lace. They did various forms of embroidery, but not lace. So therefore the Italians still claim that they inspired and birthed lacemaking. The lace that they made in Venice at that time with a needle then became a known as needle lace, which is very different from bobbin lace that I'll talk about later. So bobbin lace generally is much quicker to work than needle lace. And skilled workers were soon able to copy needle lace designs. So yes, bobbin lace was inspired again out of needle lace. Bobbin lace uses multiple threads, which are wound around wooden or bone bobbins, and therefore it's called bobbin lace. So that's the big distinction, between the two. Although the Italians even claim that they started bobbin lace, the first history book on lace, it's called--it's a very  famous book-- it's called "The History of Lace" by a Mrs. Palliser was written at the end of the 1800s. It clearly states the fact that we will never know the truth.
[00:09:33] We'll never know whether the Italian started the bobbin lace or whether the Belgians, the flounders at that stage, started the lace.  So regardless of the country of a region of bobbin lace, it did spread rapidly and was established as one of the most delicate of all handmade art forms ever. So, I mean, there might be people that would say no jewelry could be finer or whatever, but that's from the lace makers perspective. The first lace was very simple and not so delicate because of the thicker thread and very simple geometric forms that were used. But as skills were refined and much thinner threads became available, artists soon produced very complex and elaborate patterns. Lace-making reached a high point with the Brussels Point d'Angleterre. Or in Dutch, it was called bloom work, which means flower work. It was very delicate.
[00:10:39]So by the 1550s, lace-making became a very common career choice and not only a pastime skill. Initially convents took the lead in making the lace and also taught lace-making. Women were involved in spinning, weaving, and embroidery since the Middle Ages and therefore those industries, which were all home-interest industries, were well-established by the time the woman got involved in lace-making, so they were already set up for this. And I also think that some of the weaving the big tapestry were then taken over by companies and took the work away from the women in, in their home industry. So lace making filled this void at the time. Many pictorial evidences exist to show us of women either busy spinning, weaving, making lace, or depicting these articles in paintings and drawings.
[00:11:40] Paintings of rich embroidered tablecloths. And clergy attire are plentiful. If we look through the art books and, and art history, we learn about that as well. The elegant, elaborate clothing decoration reached a peak under Louis the 16th. And Marie Antoinette, obviously, and that was 1774 to 1792, and paved the way for lace to become very sought after. From Italy amongst the nobility they had this need and greed for all these wonderful things. So that also stimulated the production of very fine fabrics and decorations. In 1665, there were already 10 different kinds of known lace, of which the Belgium Mechelen, which was a little town just outside of Brussels, lace was by far the most popular for the nobility, because it was considered the prettiest of laces--fine, transparent and effective. In 1834, there were eight houses where Mechelen lace was produced. So that's just more, more or less, an idea where they started and how it spread. So I don't know whether you have any questions
[00:13:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. That's really helpful to have a little bit of a background and, and who knew there was such tension about it? I, that is so interesting to me.
[00:13:17] Elna VanGreuning: Thank you. Well, since, Belgium, and I'm going to switch between Belgium and Flanders and I'll explain in a minute why, is generally seen as the country that produced the most and the most beautiful of all laces throughout the ages. I'm going to talk about Belgium lace first of all, but that doesn't mean that the French lace wasn't special, that Spain didn't have lace Germany Switzerland, Scandinavia, Russia, and so forth. I can't talk about all the countries. Certainly the French lace was also something in that time. French lace in particular was beautiful, but not such a huge industry because of the religious persecution, because of the Edict of Nantes, and then the revolution. So it was never as big as the Belgium lace. So, Flanders became Belgium in 1839 and, you know, there were also change in, in borders, because at some stage some cities like Mechelen was in France, and then it became part of Belgium, and Brabant was first in Flanders and then it became part of Holland, so it's really difficult to know which, which part was where when, but, so just excuse me, if I, I mix between Flanders and Belgium.
[00:14:44] Paintings from the low countries, as early as the 15th century, depicts people dressed in clothes, richly adorned with lace. A series of engravings around 1585 shows lacemakers sitting at their lace pillows and working and, well, the interesting part of you, I can't show you the pictures, but if you see the pictures, they were young girls, they were not older women. And I'm going to tell you why in a little bit. In 1651, the Flemish poet, Jacob Van Eyck, wrote a famous poem about the lace maker in Latin. I'm gonna read it to you in English because I just love it. And it goes like this: "Of many arts, one surpasses all. The threads woven by the strange powers of the hand. Threads, which the dropping spider would, in vain, attempt to imitate and which Pallas [which was the Greek goddess, Athena] would confess she has never known." And she was the goddess of handicraft. So that's a, I think really a nice way of expressing. It's almost like a spider web, but it's very fine.
[00:16:06] Lindsey Dinneen: That is beautiful.
[00:16:07] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Yes. I do love that one. Because of the religious prosecution. Flanders lost many skilled lacemakers, and in 1698, legislation was even passed in, in Flanders, which kept the employer responsible if his employee fled the country. So you had to tell them why  she left and where she went to, because it was such a big industry for the country.
[00:16:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.
[00:16:40] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Now I'm going to give you a few statistics to prove how large this lacemaking industry in Belgium was. Up to 1900, the lace industry was the most valued home industry in Belgium because it accounted for a sizeable portion of foreign currency flowing into the country. As early as 1785, it was recorded that the average lacemaker was was technically blind by the age of 30, and children as young as five years old were signed up for apprenticeships. At age 10, girls earned enough to financially support themselves. It wasn't fully grown girls. In 1768, England, England alone ordered 250,000 pounds worth of lace from Flanders and by 1861, one out of every four women were involved in the lacemaking industry in Belgium. That high demand for lace in England and Europe quickly led to an embargo on the implant  and resulted in a substantial and dangerous Black Market. Between 1820 in 1836, at least 40,000 dogs were used to carry lace around their skinny bodies, and then covered in a second layer of fur from his deceased dog, between Belgium and France alone. They were very various other ways of smuggling that you also read about. But I thought this one is just a particularly horrid one because the French, even after the revolution-- mean, Napoleon also loved lace. And if you go to the Island of Murano, there's a shop that also is a museum and they have examples of some of the lace worn by Napoleon. So, yes, the revolution didn't complete it, it stopped the lace making in France, but not the need and the love for lace.
[00:18:59] Okay. Back to Flanders, the first Flanders lace exported to England was named Brussels point d'angleterre or point English, as I mentioned earlier. Because it was specifically exported to England and loved by King Charles the second. And in 1662, the English parliament issued a law to prohibit the import of this lace. And this was actually the height of the production of this point d'angleterre because of the English loving this, you know, they created a demand and a market but it was soon stopped because of the English. This boosted the English lace making industry when they prohibited the import of the Brussels lace, but they still had a long road ahead to compete with the quality and the quantities of lace made in Brussels. As a matter of fact, the British never achieved this milestone King Charles, the second, between 1660, and 1685, he ruled. He even invited some Flemish lacemakers to come and live in England, but that was really not a successful venture. The lace traders kept on smuggling huge quantities of best and finest Flemish lace, and sold it as English point lace, and not Brussels point d'angleterre.  In 1678, one of the boats smuggling these goods-- there were tons of colors, handkerchiefs, gloves, fans, you name it and 750,000 yards of lace on this boat that was seized across the English channel. Nobody knows what they did with it, but it was a huge loss for the Flanders industry because they didn't get the lace back and the British didn't pay either. So, there was a  war on a lot of fronts, not only on the political front. 
[00:21:01] Right from the beginning they only used linen thread produced in Belgium. The linen threads were so fine, it could hardly be felt between the fingertips. Linen was kept in dark and damp rooms where it was spun, stored, and used to avoid direct sunlight and from it becoming dry and brittle. The working rooms were often quite dark and only lit by one candle encircled by glass balls filled with water to reflect the candlelight.  So you wonder why they got blind at age--they were technically blind at age 30, because they've worked at very low lighting. And in 1859, just an example, one pound of Belgium linen would cost 500 pounds. That's the thread. And if they use it produce lace, the lace was only worth 700 pounds. So you can imagine that the linen was much more expensive than what the girls were paid to make this lace. They only made, made 200 pounds for all these hours of work.
[00:22:14] Linen was, therefor, far too expensive for the British machine manufacturers, and they soon switched to only using cotton. So after the industrial revolution in England, you know, there was no need for lacemakers. The machines did the lace, but they couldn't really afford making lace with linen because it was too expensive. So this was one of the reasons why Belgium lace remained high in demand, amongst the well-to-do, because the cotton was much paler in color than the natural linen and it wasn't as durable as linen. So to mimic the color of linen, the machine manufacturers, even dipped cotton lace into coffee to see whether they can't mimic the real linen look and entice their customers. But, people with money still preferred the handmade Belgium lace and the trade went on whether it was allowed or smuggling.
[00:23:21]Well, a last story about Belgium lace is about the Mechelen lace. Mechelen was a little town just outside of Brussels, and it also made very fine laces and the distinctive characteristic of this lace, was the use of this thicker, silk thread that they interweaved. It was called a gimp thread and this made it special. It looked very different. And it was woven on a net background. The production of this lace also ceased in 1834, and by then there were only eight producers of the Mechelen lace. And one of the reasons for this was because by that time knit or tool, as we know, it, was actually a machine produced in France. So, that's how, you know, it took over the place, and people used a machine-made knit to do embroidery that looked like lace and was cheaper obviously. 
[00:24:25] Churches in Belgium are the fortunate and proud owners of some of the most exquisite and valuable existing lace collections in the world and Bruges are today seen as the lace center of Belgium and a lot of tourists go there. It's a pretty little town, but it also has a lot of lace shops. Not everything is made by hand though, but they've got the museums, and it's actually ironic because Bruges wasn't the largest lace making center, but it just evolved as such. So that's more or less the story about the Belgium lace.
[00:25:08]Lindsey Dinneen: That is amazing. Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing.
[00:25:13]Elna VanGreuning: So now I can tell you a little bit about the English lace, because it also became a very popular pastime actually in 1976. It was actually in England that lacemaking really bloomed again. So the declaration of the Edict of Mantis in 1595 caused Protestants, known as huguenots, to flee from France and Flanders because they were both Catholic countries to various corners of the world. For almost 200 years, this flight of huguenots went on. In the process, the skill of lacemaking went with them. And that's actually how it went to Holland. Many went through Holland and that gave their lacemaking a boost. Holland did have lacemakers because they were so close to Belgium. But it was never at the scale and the quality of Belgium. So with the lacemakers fleeing France and Flanders, many of them went to Holland and many went to England. After some of the huguenots settled in England, in 1695, there were more than a hundred thousand lacemakers from France in England. During the French revolution, the lace schools and linen factories closed and stock got so low, which then boosted the English lacemaking industry and forced the British to  import more lace from Belgium because they couldn't provide in all the lace for the nobility.  King Charles the second loved lace and he ordered 600 yards of lace to adorn his nightgowns alone. Only for his nightgowns.
[00:27:04] Lindsey Dinneen: That is amazing and very lavish
[00:27:08] Elna VanGreuning: That's right. So when you watch these old movies again, just watch and see whether you see the lace, because it's there, but unfortunately, with the industrial revolution, machine-made lace soon took over the handmade lace industry in England. And by 1765, as I said earlier, the net background was made by a machine . And so handmade lace in England changed into a hobby, and not a career, and died for almost a hundred years. There were hardly anybody making handmade lace in England. Until the 1970s, it surfaced again. So that's just a little bit about the lace in England and the Victorian Albert Museum in London, if you ever get a opportunity to go there, they also have a magnificent collection of lace from all over the world and it's worth visiting. So what about America? I'm sure you're wondering, did it ever come to America?
[00:28:15] Lindsey Dinneen: I am wondering,
[00:28:17]Elna VanGreuning: So, it indeed did. Lacemaking was brought to America by European immigrants and soon became a popular hobby in several communities. One of the earliest and best known lace home industries was in Ipswich in Massachusetts. They started in 1639 and by the 18th century, they were quite a home industry and produced beautiful lace as well. And it was in the fashion of the European lace, mostly torsion. It's still a beautiful lace. Today, there still is an international organization of lace in the US and most states still have an active Guild. So if anybody would be interested in seeing what they're doing and, you know, I noticed that the Guild here in Virginia has a big exhibit right now in Culpepper, but because of COVID-19, you know, the museum there's closed. So that is something to go and visit after everything opens. And then in 1907, Mrs. James W. Pinscher suggested to the Smithsonian Institute to put together a collection of lace. She and some of her well-to-do friends collectively donated or loaned 500 pieces of lace to the National Museum of American History. And it is still there today. So not all of it's on display, but they are the proud owners of the lace. So, yes, it is something that you could even make in the US and get involved in.
[00:30:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wonderful. Well, first of all, thank you. That was deep and rich. And I really appreciate knowing more 'cause,  I shared with you beforehand, this is new to me and I'm very excited to learn more. So first of all, thank you for that. . So if somebody is interested in getting involved, is there a good way to start that you recommend?
[00:30:30]Elna VanGreuning: I would recommend going through the International Organization of Lace in the US and then you can go to your state, contact them, but I think they also give places where you can order all these things, but you'll have to get a good book. It's the books that you can teach yourself. It's not impossible to teach yourself, but it would be wise to, or helpful to join a guild. And I'm sure most guilds will have somebody that loves teaching other people the skill.
[00:31:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you. And then do you have any particular recommendations if someone maybe isn't able to start, you know, making it themselves, but they would like to support artists who do-- do you know of any kind of resource or would you also suggest going to the guild to kind of try to find those makers where we can maybe support them?
[00:31:31]Elna VanGreuning: Yes. I think the guild, the International Organization would be the best place to start, because, I saw exhibit of people in Sutton, Virginia, over Christmas through the guild. They had an exhibit and they actually sold some of their products. So they may made little Christmas decorations, crosses, they even had Easter eggs adorned with lace. So people are not necessarily making typical lace anymore because very few people would wear, or use lace fans and things like that. So when you get a beautiful pattern--I've made quite a few lace collars. I framed them and I framed things for my grandchildren.
[00:32:15] Or you can make a handkerchief, and have it embroidered with the dates of somebody getting married. So yes, you can make practical things, but I think people are thinking of adapting the lace and making more, you know, things for the house that, or you could use, or that's more fashionable today. And, the various guilds would be more productive and more and more initiative. I wouldn't be able to say--some would be more traditional and only do the old patterns, and they're beautiful old patterns. I mean, if you see it, you would just wish, "Oh, I'll make two yards of lace." I made 14 yards of lace for my children's christening dresses. That's, you know, 37 years ago. Maybe people still do that, or people that are into making porcelain dolls, they make their own clothes. They would also make the lace for those, for the dresses. I'm sure there are a lot of uses for that.
[00:33:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Perfect. Okay. Thank you. Yes, that's helpful. Okay, okay. Well, I have a couple questions that I love to ask my guests--just personal opinion about art. Is that okay if I ask a couple of questions?
[00:33:25] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Yeah, sure.
[00:33:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:33:34]Elna VanGreuning: I think art is anything that's so beautiful for the eye that you either wanted to touch it, hear it, see it, you know, and you could even eat it, if it's like, in cake. So it's something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:33:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. I love that answer. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:34:02]Elna VanGreuning: I think they give other people a way of escaping. Not everybody, you know, has the talent to be an artist. Or maybe everybody's got the talent. We just don't work on it, maybe. You know, I always think I can't sing or draw. So therefore I want to, you know, stress that art can be different forms. And I think artists brings a form of art to us that maybe we cannot make ourselves or participate in, but can appreciate. And I think it's very important because I think we can't just work all the time. I think it's a stress. It helps with stress and I just think for your own psyche, it's wonderful to enjoy something beautiful.
[00:34:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Alright. And my last question--I can define my terms a little bit in it--but, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So what I mean by exclusive is, an artist create something and they share it with the world and they allow whoever is experiencing it to take from it what they will. So the artist doesn't necessarily provide any context or background to what they've produced. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist shares maybe their intention behind it. What inspired it? Just so that you kind of as an audience, or viewer or whatever, have a little bit to at least start with when you are evaluating it for yourself.
[00:35:44] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. I think a little bit of both, you know? Sometimes when you go to a museum and you just stand in front of something, you can see "Oh, this is a painting of a river and it's a sunny day" and you can make your own conclusion.  But other times you might look at something and because you don't know the history or the setting, you can't fully appreciate it. So therefore, when I go to a museum, I always love taking a tour because I always feel I learn so much and I see it in a different perspective. So, I think there's a place for both.
[00:36:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you.
[00:36:29]Elna VanGreuning: Thank you very much, Lindsey.
[00:36:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Well, I just want to say again, thank you so, so, so much for taking the time today to share with us about lace and its origins and how we can participate. I just want to say in general, thank you also for creating art and sharing it. And, I appreciate that you make the world a more beautiful place. So thank you.
[00:36:56] Elna VanGreuning: Thank you very much. Bye bye.
[00:37:00]Bye!
[00:37:01] Lindsey Dinneen: If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:37:11] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

Episode 015 - Kevin Dinneen

In this episode, I welcome my husband, Kevin Dinneen! He shares about his first time attending a professional dance company's performance, and how there was no "guidebook" for dating a professional dancer before he wrote one. 
 
Read "Flowers Are a Thing": https://www.facebook.com/notes/vidadance/flowers-are-a-thing/1521301624845093/
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 015 - Kevin Dinneen
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.
[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am your host Lindsey, and I am excited to be sharing a story from my special guest today, and that is my very own husband, Kevin. Welcome, Kevin. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:00:47] Kevin Dinneen: Yes. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:49] Lindsey Dinneen: All right. So I know that you have a social story about art that you'd like to share with us today.
[00:00:55] Kevin Dinneen: I do. Unfortunately, this is going to be a rerun for you.
[00:01:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay!
[00:01:00] Kevin Dinneen: You lived it and, and then you heard it several times. but I'd like to tell the story of when I was thrown into the deep end of attending ballet. This might surprise you all: there's not a primer out there. There is now because I created it. So check that out later, "Flowers are a Thing" on Facebook. Look it up. But there was not a primer or a, how to, or a, what do you call those--quick-start guide--there wasn't a, there wasn't anything.
[00:01:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:01:32] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:01:33] Lindsey Dinneen: So you were going to come see a show of mine. Actually, we had just met.
[00:01:41] Kevin Dinneen: You got that right! That's funny because that's an alert from what is, what is that app?
[00:01:47] Lindsey Dinneen: It's a text messaging app. So yeah, it has nothing to do with what's going on right now, but good timing. Perfect timing.
[00:01:55] Kevin Dinneen: Right. Okay, so let's backtrack. So the first day I met Lindsey was at a church function, and I happened to learn that she was a professional dancer and that she would be performing soon. And, I decided, "Hey, it would be cool if a group of us, that were in the church group , went and, and saw the performance." I decided to go ahead and organize this thing. And we got like six people to go in, and buy tickets and go support her. Now, the interesting thing is that that was the first day that I met her. Then I started like planning it and running by like, "How do I promote it? Does this email do it justice? I don't know what I'm talking about. Did I use the words?" Right. And, and that was like a week or two in maybe?
[00:02:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I don't, yeah. I don't even know if it was that long because we met, and then I want to say either that night or the next day you sent me an email asking if you had the right wording or if I would change anything, it was really pretty quick because the performance was only a couple of weeks away at that point.
[00:03:10] Kevin Dinneen: So, so fast forward to the day before, slash day of, I really started to like Lindsey and I had already decided that I was going to ask her out. But she's got this upcoming performance that was going to be at the Kauffman Center for Performing Arts. That's the legit place in Kansas City. There is not a better professional theater anywhere. I mean, it's amazing. It rivals the one in Sydney, right?
[00:03:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, the Sydney Opera House for the acoustics.
[00:03:47] Kevin Dinneen: So, anyway, so I wasn't gonna ask you out and throw you off your game, and either, either burden you with having to let me down or be so excited that you couldn't think about your work.
[00:04:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.
[00:04:00] Kevin Dinneen: So, yeah. I only think on the opposite ends of the spectrum, apparently.
[00:04:05] Lindsey Dinneen: It wasn't a happy medium where I'm just like, "Yeah, this works."
[00:04:08] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. "Well, whatever--this dude? Nevermind."
[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Details.
[00:04:14] Kevin Dinneen: So a little while before the performance, like a week before I decided that I was going to ask you out. Then I found out that your parents and your brother and sister-in-law were going to be at the performance as well.
[00:04:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
[00:04:34]Kevin Dinneen:  So now I'm worried, 'cause I've got to make a good impression because I like her. So I have to make a good impression on her family. And the night before I start thinking, you know, is it customary to do something? And I, and flowers come to mind. And I, I think of the opera and there's roses being thrown on the stage, and ice skating, they throw all sorts of stuff, stuffed animals and flowers and all that. And, so I got to thinking is, "Am I supposed to do that? Would it be weird if I did, or would it be weird if I didn't?" I didn't know the answer, so I Googled it and I remember some of the images coming up where little girls getting flowers after a recital. And so I was then worried thinking, "Oh, maybe for dance, this is, you know, just for girls--and boys, I guess, but anyway--like little kids after a recital." And I just imagined like, giving you this bouquet of flowers and you're like, "Uh, did you miss where I said, I'm a professional?"
[00:05:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh no!
[00:05:48] Kevin Dinneen: "I am not a student at a recital." And then, you know, the other way around, I show up with nothing and she's like, "Oh, I guess he doesn't care." 
[00:06:00] Lindsey Dinneen: You think in extremes.
[00:06:01] Kevin Dinneen: Again? Yeah, yeah. It's either. Yeah. So, I got to thinking and I thought, "Okay, so let's do, let's do something, but we don't have to fall into the flower or no flower category and you can do your own thing." So I thought about the conversation that we had had where I found out that she liked Granite City Brewery's chocolate cake. There was her favorite cake.
[00:06:27] Lindsey Dinneen: It's amazing.
[00:06:28] Kevin Dinneen: And so I go and watch the performance, and then I didn't bring the cake in beforehand because I thought, you know, this is a fancy theater. Oh, also I'd never been there. I didn't know the rules or anything. And I figured, you know, it's a little bit self-obsessed if I called to see if I can bring cake , like, "I know you've got a lot going on, but this is important. Can I bring cake? It's for a date? Thanks for taking my call."
[00:06:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:07:00] Kevin Dinneen: And so I didn't want to call to ask that. So, so I decided what I'll do is, I'll just leave it in the car. And then after the show, I'll just run out, grab it and bring it back. And, so I watched the show, Lindsey was awesome. And, then I meet her parents and her brother and sister-in-law and all that goes really well. And I was like, " Hey, I'll be right back." So I leave and I go out to the car, I grabbed the cake and then, I get back to the door and I go to go inside and the door is locked.
[00:07:37] Lindsey Dinneen: I forgot this part.
[00:07:40] Kevin Dinneen: The door is locked and there's no one around. So right now there's a cast party going on. Right? So, so the people that are gonna stay are going to be there for awhile and the people that have left, like they left a while ago. If they were going to leave, they were gone. And so I'm just, I'm stuck and I'm freaking out. And,  I go all the way around this building. There are two entrances, right?
[00:08:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Mind you though, this is, this is a bit of a walk. It's a huge building.
[00:08:10] Kevin Dinneen: It's a huge building. And there's a back that's in the garage. So you have to go all the way around the garage and then around the building. And then, you know, the entrance is, is actually cut into the building. So I actually have to go a good four blocks. Right?
[00:08:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think so.
[00:08:29] Kevin Dinneen: A good four or five blocks. And so, I pass people on the street and they're--'cause I'm in a suit with this Granite City carry-out bag walking, like someone's chasing me.
[00:08:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and it is, you know, January, so it's freezing!
[00:08:44] Kevin Dinneen: And it was January, like 9:30 or 10:00.
[00:08:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably.
[00:08:49]Kevin Dinneen: So like I wonder what they thought my condition was or my situation was.
[00:08:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It's a cake emergency.
[00:08:55] Kevin Dinneen: A cake emergency-- so then I get around to the front of a building and, I see an, I don't know, he's an usher or what-- he sees me waiting there with a bag and I, I wave at him and he comes over and I said, I'm friends with a dancer, and I just ran out to my car and I got locked out. I am part of the after party upstairs. And he's like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, come on in." So I was like "Whew." I thought for sure I was going to have to, that this was going to be a whole thing. No, once you leave, you can't come back or something. And then I can see our successful relationship just melting away at that very moment because this usher took it upon himself to be a guard, sent me away, and all of my hopes and dreams were dashed. Anyway...
[00:09:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Anyway, the flair for the dramatic.
[00:09:45] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. So, so I get back and when I get back, it was perfect timing because Lindsey and her family were actually headed to the elevator to go downstairs, to leave, when I caught up. I actually don't remember what we talked about heading to the elevator, but I didn't mention anything about what was in my hand. And I saw you and I just totally forgot the dilemma that I had just been in. And, so we're riding down in an elevator, with Lindsey and her parents. And I remember her dad was on one side of her and her mom was on the other. And I said, "Oh, and I have this chocolate cake for you. And, and she smiled and we were really awkward, but luckily Lindsey was grinning ear to ear. And so we get out of the elevator and there's just like this, like probably 10 or 15 seconds where no one said anything.
[00:10:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, we were just awkwardly grinning at each other.
[00:10:44] Kevin Dinneen: And your parents are just watching.
[00:10:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, everyone else, 'cause there was a friend of yours also in the elevator with you and he was also just like, nobody kind of knew what to do.
[00:10:56] Kevin Dinneen: So, yeah, so we leave the elevator and I said, "Hey, so I was going to get your flowers, but I didn't know if flowers were a thing. And so, I thought I'd get you chocolate cake instead." And luckily Lindsey smiled and was like, "Chocolate cake is a thing too."
[00:11:16] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm pretty sure I affirmed that flowers indeed are a thing, but chocolate cake is a thing too. Yeah. Yeah. And it's great because it's now a tradition and kind of everybody who knows me as a dancer knows about this thing. So they'll even ask about it, like "When are you getting your cake at the end of the performance run?" And things like that, 'cause it's, it's always, it's a tradition now.
[00:11:44] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, and so since Lindsey is the Artistic Director, and runs a professional dance company. Whenever we have a cast party, then we always have chocolate cake that's for everyone.
[00:11:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And it's really fun, 'cause we get to share that story. And, yeah, I just remember thinking, you know, just grinning at you from across the elevator. 'Cause we were like on either side. And silence. And we're just like, transformed into these like super awkward, you know, love-struck teenagers. Like your relationship isn't even really happening yet, but we think we probably like it each other. Yeah, I think that was definitely proof though, for me anyway, that you, you liked me and that you paid attention. That was a big thing actually, 'cause you could have just been like, okay, I think she said the cake and got it from anywhere, you know? Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing your story about art, Kevin.
[00:12:40] Kevin Dinneen: Oh, and if anyone wants to hear more about that story...
[00:12:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Ah, yes.
[00:12:44] Kevin Dinneen: And they want to learn more--maybe, you know, we're speaking right now to someone who's in a similar place and aspiring to date a dancer. And you know, maybe you're not sure if it's for you, or you're not sure if you can hack it. Well, I do have some tips and best practices for courting and dating a professional dancer. So check out "Flowers Are a Thing" on Facebook and you will be more prepared.
[00:13:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. And, dancers will definitely get a kick out of it because you're going to relate to all of it too. So yeah. Enjoy.
[00:13:24] Kevin Dinneen: Bobby pins has its own section.
[00:13:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, exactly. And that should be enough right there as we all know, but, yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks, Kevin. And, a couple of quick questions, if you don't mind.
[00:13:38]Kevin Dinneen:  Oh, you're not going to ask me the questions I helped you come up with you.
[00:13:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah, I am. Okay.
[00:13:43] Kevin Dinneen: Okay.
[00:13:45] Lindsey Dinneen: How do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:13:52] Kevin Dinneen: Okay, so to me, I think art is, is taking some base components, some raw material and forming that raw material into something that a viewer or listener or someone experiencing that in whatever shape or, or vessel medium that might be, and something that enhances their lives. Whereas you take this, there's a piece of paper and this pen and separately, you glance over it, but you take those things and you combine that into a, into a moving-- I don't mean moving physically, but something that moves the person that sees it. And that is what art is. You have these, these raw materials that you create an experience from, and I think that's art and it's it's on every--it doesn't have to be happy. It doesn't have to be sad. It doesn't have to be hard to understand. It doesn't have to be easy to understand. It's just creating something moving from raw materials.
[00:15:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, I like that answer. That was awesome.
[00:15:09] Kevin Dinneen: I just came up with that by the way.
[00:15:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that was seriously off the fly, because we had come up with these questions a while ago, but I don't think he thought they would be used against him, so to speak. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:15:27]Kevin Dinneen: You know, I'm going to kind of cheat because I think it's up to each individual artist, and I think all of the roles of art are important. So you can think of the role of an artist portraying a social issue to bring about positive change. That's so important, but if you have an artist who is really gifted and really enjoys entertaining, a lighthearted entertainment, then I think that that's where they need to go. Then that is just as important of a role as, you know, bringing a social change or whatever, 'cause that's also a social change actually. And maybe, maybe an artist feels that he or she is is called to educate through art or inform through art. I think that they are all important and I feel like it's important for each artist to embrace his or her passion, and not conform to what they were, what he or she was told is art.
[00:16:32] Oh, it's not art if, you know, people can understand it. Or it's not, it's not art unless it's on canvas, or it's not art, unless it's to the point where it gets into a museum, or whatever it is that that people are told is not art. If you're it, whatever it is, I think whatever an artists' passion is, I think it's important for them to play that role. 'Cause they're going to do it better than if they were doing something else and they're going to do it better than someone else who has a different passion as well. So I think they're all important. And the most important thing is to follow your passion.
[00:17:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree. Okay. Final question. Should art be exclusive or inclusive? Exclusive meaning that the artist does his or her job, so to speak and then, it's up to the individual to interpret it without any kind of assistance, whether that's knowing the reason behind the piece or, you know, what inspired it or whatever. Versus inclusive meaning that more people would be able to understand it because the artist is going to express the reasoning behind it, or the significance of the mediums they've chosen.
[00:17:50] Kevin Dinneen: So for exclusive, this would be, I create this piece, and all I ever let anyone know about it is--let's say it's a painting. They just see the painting. And that's all I ever say about it. Whereas inclusive would be, if you're not maybe seeing things like I do, this is a painting that was brought on from the time I was in a car accident, so you'll notice that a lot of the edges are, are harder. Makes me think of like, you know, whatever it's things like that, like explaining the piece, there may be a lacquered by the meaning or audible track. You put the headphones on. And it's me talking about my process and stuff like that. Right?
[00:18:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Exactly. So not simply, you know, this is "Watercolor on Canvas," which it might be useful, but more about the piece.
[00:18:41] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. My answer is a, is a super hard inclusive. Just because I haven't been able to enjoy a lot of pieces of art because I didn't know what I was supposed to take from it. I, you know, I didn't understand-- boy, there's a lot of anger. I can, I can see really violent stuff here. And I, but I don't know. I don't know why. And I don't know if this person is justified. I don't know what's going on. For me, for an artist not to explain what's going on and say, "Oh, well, you get what you want to get out of it." Well then most people  don't get anything out of it . Or they don't get nearly as much as they would if they heard the story behind it or heard the process that created it. And I think that's very important. I don't understand when someone creates something, I don't understand why they wouldn't want everyone to be able to see it the way they're wanting it to be shown.
[00:19:58] Lindsey Dinneen: So to that point, do you feel that there's value though an artist creating a completely open-ended piece where even for themselves their intention behind it was to have a sort of, you know, vagueness?
[00:20:15] Kevin Dinneen: Yes. I understand the reason behind it, but it frustrates me just like every movie that ends without knowing if they're actually gonna be together or is he actually going to make it out alive? Yes, there's a storytelling element to that. And there's a feeling that it leaves you with  of wanting more and this unresolved, whatever it is, that you're left with, that actually leaves a lasting impression. And I understand that that's a part of art, or can be, but it's frustrating to me. I would like to know what happens, you know, I'll go with you. I'll go with you on a story, but take me to the end. Don't leave me hanging.
[00:20:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Excellent. Well, thank you so much again, for being part of our podcast today. I am delighted to be able to feature that story. It's a pretty fun one, of course I'm a little biased, but it did put him in a very good place right away for me to want to date him. I mean, I already was interested, but you'd shown up to something that was like, you barely knew me at the time and made the commitment and actually followed through. And then he brought me chocolate cake.
[00:21:30] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, fellows, fellows, listen.
[00:21:33] Lindsey Dinneen: For real, and cared enough to even have the question is, you know, our flowers a thing? Which most people, I don't even think it would cross their minds. So, yeah. But on that note, thank you so much for listening. And if you have your own stories to share with our listeners, we would love to hear them. So please feel free to contact me at any time and we will get you set up here in an interview. All right. Well, thanks again for listening and we'll catch you next time.
[00:22:03]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:22:13]Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different product courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you are a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

Episode 014 - Julie Ulstrup

In this episode, I welcome Julie Ulstrup! She is a professional portrait photographer, currently based out of Fort Collins, Colorado. She shares her journey from her first experiences with art to doing landscape photography, and what inspires her with portrait photography now. (The episode cover image is one of her portraits, from her most recent project, 50 Over 50!) 
 
Get in touch with Julie Ulstrup: https://www.julieulstrup.com/ | https://www.facebook.com/JulieUlstrupPhotography/ | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwcnAX2kZHvPCfQoJY75hng?reload=9&view_as=subscriber 
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off your entire order!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 014 - Julie Ulstrup
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses, and that you just experiences as so beautiful.
[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am Lindsey. I am so excited that you are here listening, and I am very delighted to be welcoming our guest today. Her name is Julie Ulstrup and she hails from Fort Collins, Colorado, although she works all over the world and I can't wait to hear all about that. She is a portrait photographer, as well as so many other things, as so many people are multifaceted. And I cannot wait to share Julie's stories with you and also learn who she is and all that she brings to the world. So thank you so much for being here, Julie. I really appreciate it.
[00:01:14] Julie Ulstrup: Oh, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you, Lindsey, for hosting this podcast and you know, really bringing some stories about art into the world. I love it.
[00:01:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my pleasure. Well, I would love if you would take just a moment to maybe introduce yourself and share a little bit about, you know, who you are and how you've gotten involved in photography. And just a little bit about you, if that's okay.
[00:01:40] Julie Ulstrup: Yeah, that would be great. Well, like you mentioned, I am a portrait photographer and I have a portrait studio in Fort Collins, Colorado. So I, and I serve people from around the country. There are a lot of people who visit Colorado, obviously, and also around the world. I've got a full indoor studio and then this quintessential Colorado property where I have outdoor space that I can have very large groups. I, again, I do families, I do generation photography. I also do headshots and personal branding as well as high school seniors. So I think it's all the good stuff. I feel like photography is something that has, it's been part of my life really since I was born.
[00:02:34] My grandparents, my mom's family, owned the camera store before I was born. And so, and I was the oldest grandchild and I was photographed all the time. There are millions of things, probably pictures of me and then when I was in high school, I really developed this passion for photography and I loved it, went to college and I was a journalism major and took all of the photography classes that I could. And then even right after college, I worked for a very prestigious photography studio in Chicago, where I grew up. And then I decided I had to get a, like a "grownup job" and be a real grownup, do grownup things, you know, and I had done very well in photography. I worked for a photography studio in college, and this was back in the day when we took rolls of film with us and I photographed sorority and fraternity parties, but I just didn't really see it as--well, I didn't really see it as art and I also didn't really see it as a way that I could have a viable business and earn a living and have a lifestyle that I really wanted.
[00:03:53] So fast forward, 20 years later, actually maybe 30 years later. I always have loved photography. And I worked as a school counselor in a middle school, a high school and at the university level. And so really connecting with people is what I'm incredibly passionate about. You know, helping empowering people, helping people see who they are. And I realized that my love of photography and my love of really connecting with people and helping empower and inspire them could come together in a way that was really beautiful. So that's, that's the really short cliff notes version by very long photography journey that has been so incredible in my life. And. And I can't even imagine what my life would be like without it.
[00:04:58]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And I know that in your life that you've probably encountered many, many interesting things that are art-related that have spoken to you, but I would just love to hear--are there any particular moments that really stand out to you as being special or particularly meaningful?
[00:05:22] Julie Ulstrup: Yes. Well, like I said, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs and I had a phenomenal photography teacher. And he also taught at The Art Institute of Chicago. So every year we got--and I took every photography class that I could--every year, we got to go down to The Art Institute and, you know, walk around and see different things and do different things. Well, because he was an instructor there, we had special access to photographs that the general public did not have access to. And I will never forget one time. We went to, we were, we were down in this room, this conference room with a big table, and this was in my third year of photography. So it was all of the people who were the people who've taken photography for several years and we were passing around these photographs.
[00:06:23] I still get chills when I think of it, of, you know, it was just an incredible experience to, to see in real life, in my own hands in front of me, these photographs that I had only seen in books and really, yeah, powerful for me to be able to have that experience and realize the power of art at the time. I felt like landscape art really spoke to me. So, you know, again, some of the great landscape photographers of course, but the moment photography, just really creating that moment and finding that moment was just beautiful. So, yeah, that's a big one for me. Actually, I do have a funny story because I really thought that landscape photography was what I was super passionate about.
[00:07:18] And I went to see Tom Mandelson, who is a contemporary photographer. He's still alive. And he does a lot of photography in the mountains, in the United States, in the West. And he was giving this talk and he talked about, "Oh yeah, we were all sitting out in the blind, in the, you know, in the middle of the night, waiting for the sun to rise. And after about eight hours in the cold and in the swamp, most of the people had gone back for breakfast, but a couple of us had waited and like, this is where I got this beautiful shot." And I don't even remember if it was an Eagle or a moose or something. And I thought, "Yeah, I'm going to be the woman who's going back and having coffee."
[00:08:02] I'm not, I don't want to sit in a blind for eight hours like that.  And then of course, Annie Liebowitz is one that I just love. She's an American photographer and she does a lot of very-- what are they? I would say she, she does a lot of magazine style shoots and does some really glamorous things. And she's also, I mean, she's photographed everybody from the Rolling Stones to the Queen of England. You know, so she's just pretty remarkable as well.
[00:08:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. And so that was, you were saying that was in high school or I, or sorry, college.
[00:08:43] Julie Ulstrup: Yeah, that was high school, yup.
[00:08:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And then, so then how did that impact you as far as --well, actually, what I'm really interested in finding out is, so you, you were super inspired by landscape photography, but then you ended up as a portrait photographer. So how, how did that kind of weave about?
[00:09:05] Julie Ulstrup: Well, as I mentioned, for lack of a better way to say it, I got into grownup life, you know, because I, I had some jobs, and then I had some children, and I was able to stay home with them for awhile. And I had a, had a job at a university when my children were growing up, and I really became passionate about empowering young people to see further than they believed that they could see. And I always had this, you know, I took pictures of my children and I photographed my family throughout their life, growing up, that kind of thing. It never went away. And then I went through some really hard times in my life and I did the, I did some landscape photography and I enjoyed it.
[00:09:56] I loved it. I spend a lot of time outdoors in the Rocky Mountains are beautiful national parks, all of that kind of thing. And then I really decided, you know, I wonder if this is something that I could do more of, really find a different way. I was working as a school counselor in a high school and it can be exhausting and there came a time when there was a lot of paperwork involved and a lot of that, not really connecting with the students and their families, the way that I wanted to, because to me that was, and still is the best part about it. And so I started building my photography business. And started taking portraits, started working with families, started doing some high school seniors, some babies, that kind of thing.
[00:10:55] And really just started learning and growing my craft in a way that I could connect with people. And I think it was really even that experience that I mentioned just a few minutes ago with Tom Mangleson. Like, yeah, I don't want to sit in a blind for hours and hours to get a gorgeous photograph. Yes, I love being outdoors, but I would rather spend time with people and help them see the possibility of who they are. And that's what I do with my portrait work. I meet with people and I find out who they are and what makes them tick and the, the juicy, exciting parts about them. And. Photograph them. And I've had people come back and see their photographs after their session. And they're in tears because they have not seen themselves that way in a really long time, or they forgotten that part of themselves.
[00:12:05] So it's become a passion of mine to really help people because a lot of people, and you may know this, Lindsey, a lot of people, and it's more women--like, no, I don't want to be in the picture. No, you can't take my photograph now. Wait until I have my hair different or I get some new clothes or I lose 15 pounds. All of these things, there are all of these excuses why we don't show up. And so I help people to see that it's always good to show up and where you are right now is exactly where you should be right now and share that with the world.
[00:12:51] Lindsey Dinneen: That's beautiful.
[00:12:52] Julie Ulstrup: Thank you.
[00:12:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and I love that. I love the fact that you're so passionate about empowering people and it's not-- it would be absolutely fine if it were just a job, so to speak, for you. But I love the fact that it's so much more to it for you. It's not just like, let me just take this picture and, you know, and, and make it the best it can be. It's who are you? And then let me show that to the world. I think that's incredible.
[00:13:22] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely, it is for me. So I love it.
[00:13:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, I think that is absolutely just gorgeous. I love that. So you mentioned that you've actually been able to do this, not just locally to where you are, but you've actually been able to do this all over the world. Can you share more about that?
[00:13:44] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. Well, I haven't yet traveled all over the world, but I have traveled quite a bit. I do have some clients--actually I client who lived here in Northern Colorado and she came for her photographs. And she was leaving the very next day to go back home to Dubai. And so she, we did her session and then we did a Zoom call and she chose her favorites. And she has said to me, "Oh, I would love if you could come here because there'd be so many women who want to be photographed." And anyway, so we, I did some photographs of her and also traveled some to other parts in the United States where I've done a family--I photographed a family reunion in Hawaii, and we've got some resorts here in Fort Collins and in the surrounding areas of the mountains where I've done some family reunion. I'm working with somebody in Chicago to do-- I've got a, a project going on right now. And I think we're going to be doing some sessions in Chicago, probably later this summer to really do some celebration of people. So that's more to come. That's really my, my goal to move forward with that when I travel and, and, you know, continue to use my studio here in Colorado and have people here because it's, it's pretty great.
[00:15:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Do you happen to have, and I know this is going to be a very difficult question to answer, but maybe one or a couple photos that you've taken that really stand out to you as being meaningful in? And I'm sure that, you know, that's, that's just such a hard question to answer, but you know, just something that stands out to you as being particularly meaningful, like you just, there's a memory attached or there's just something that just pulls at you when you see this photo?
[00:15:53] Julie Ulstrup: Well, that's funny. And when you ask the question, you, you know, you predicated it with--well, it's really, it's like asking a mother who's, you know, which of your children is your favorite and I've...
[00:16:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Exactly!
[00:16:05] Julie Ulstrup: I've taken thousands and thousands of photographs and what the stories are, what really evoke the emotion for me-- I had two of them, as soon as you said it, two of them came to mind. So I'll share those with you. I photographed a family last summer who was celebrating the parents were celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary and I actually photographed them with their children and their grandchildren on the day of their 50th wedding anniversary. And this was up in Estes Park, and the gentleman was not super healthy, but the family was really happy to be together. And we got these beautiful, beautiful photographs and they don't live in, in Colorado. So again, we did an online ordering session where they chose their favorites and I heard from the wife in February.
[00:17:11] And she said to me that her husband had passed away at Christmas. And she said, "Julie, I don't know, I don't know if you know this, but those photographs mean so much to me. And they've really helped me through what has been a very difficult time." And so that kind of story is, I'm so grateful that I could do that for this family and that they have those memories and that those grandchildren will remember, you know, we had some formal portraits. And then there were some of the kids just laughing on their grandparent's lap. And so that those children, they will have those for generations. You know, they'll be able to share those with their children and their grandchildren. And so that was a very powerful experience for me recently.
[00:18:06] And then I also do some work for a local nonprofit, and I do some photographs of women who were going through breast cancer treatment. And one woman came to me for portraits and she didn't have hair at the time. And she was not feeling well and she didn't want to be photographed. And she'll be like, "Well, look at me. I don't have any hair." And she wasn't excited about having her photograph taken, but she really wanted to give back to this nonprofit that had helped her. And we did a whole session with her, and she has therapy dogs, and she came back to see her photographs and they were all up on a wall. I have a wall that's, but I helped the matted and the prints made--I'm getting chills --when I tell the story. And she just, she just started crying. And she said the day that she came to see the photographs, she wasn't feeling well because she was still going through cancer treatment. And she said, these photographs show me that I'm very much alive.
[00:19:23]Lindsey Dinneen:  Oh, wow.
[00:19:25] Julie Ulstrup: Still beautiful. Oh, without my hair, even without the things that she thought of herself that made her beautiful and a woman and all of those things. So that was a very powerful experience as well.
[00:19:43]Lindsey Dinneen:  That is incredible. I think you really, you completely nailed it when you were talking about it' s --I mean, you could, probably, from an artistic, from a professional standpoint, you could probably take the perfect photo of X, Y, and Z, but without the story behind it, it's not as impactful and, and, meaningful to you than when you have these incredible stories, like the two that you shared, where you, you were able to help somebody see a different perspective on them of themselves, or you were able to capture memories that will be cherished forever. And, and it's not just about this one, you know, photo or piece of art or music what's behind it. And I, I love that. That is so cool.
[00:20:38] Julie Ulstrup: Thank you. Yeah, I do too. I, interestingly, now there are all these stories coming up in my head like, "Oh, I wonder how this family's doing" or that, you know, when people who come in with their baby or, you know, even high school seniors, I think sometimes families think, "Oh, I don't want to do this. We're just going to do something, you know, we'll do something on our cell phones or we'll do a selfie, whatever," and they come and they have this experience to commemorate the passage of time, to commemorate something that's important to them--their children growing up. Their, you know, our families growing older. Our families having babies and changing, and, you know, that's such a precious thing in this world that we live in that can be so...whatever it is amazing, beautiful, busy, crazy hard. You know, that there are these moments that really are meant to be cherished and to take some time to, to celebrate that --I think is really valuable.
[00:21:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And I think, you know, maybe one of the things that's great about having a professional photographer do it is that you, you bring a different perspective to the family and you're able to draw out something different than maybe the mom who's taking a photo on her cell phone, which there's nothing wrong with that. But yeah, you're able to bring a little bit of a different take , I would say maybe as to, like you've talked about bringing out their personality or, you know, making sure that they know how special they are through your work, which is a unique way to go about it too. It's not just like, let's quickly capture this moment 'cause we need to. It's, let's cherish this moment 'cause we can.
[00:22:38] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things that I have found too is one of the reasons that people don't have professional portraits made is they feel like it's very stressful. They feel like, "Oh, I need to have the right clothes and I need to have the right hair. And I need all of, all of those things and where am I going to have it done?" Yeah. I really help people walk through the process and I make it very pain-free for them. You know, we talk about, "Okay, what are you going to wear? And what do you, you want to, what is the, do you want something casual? Do you want something formal? What's the feel that you want?" Even with a headshot, a person, oh, I, you know, you don't want to have a headshot. I'm just going to do-- Well, you know what, if you want to attract people into your business or whatever to watch your YouTube video or whatever it is. You want something that's going to be an expression of really who you are deeply and authentically, because like you said, Lindsey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a quick cell phone picture. Those are fun. You want to do those. You want to capture those times, and having something that's a little more thought out and mindful of really who you are, where you are right now.
[00:24:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love it. Well, Julie, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing about your work and about your heart behind your work. And, I really, really appreciate you sharing some stories with us about, you know, The reasoning behind what you do, but also just some of these amazing stories of lives being touched. So thank you for that. I really, really appreciate it.
[00:24:40] Julie Ulstrup: You're so welcome. Thank you for this platform to be able to do that. I love it, Lindsey.
[00:24:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.
[00:24:53] Julie Ulstrup: Of course.
[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?
[00:25:03] Julie Ulstrup: Hmm, well, I believe I, I believe art is an expression and a like a, an interaction between the person who creates it and the person who's looking at it. And it's, it's a shared, it's a shared experience.
[00:25:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:25:40] Julie Ulstrup: Well, I think it's to connect. To connect with my self as an artist who I am so that I can connect with the people in my art and the people who are looking at my art, experiencing my art for many, many years.
[00:26:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that connection is so important. Okay. And then for my final question--I'll explain a little bit about the terms that I'm going to use--do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is, so exclusive referring to an artist who creates a piece of, of art, whether that's, a photo or a dance or whatever it is and presents it to the world, but doesn't give much context behind it. So perhaps there's not necessarily even a title or a, the intention behind it or what inspired it or anything--just sort of here it is--and then up to whoever sees it to interpret it. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist does share a little bit maybe about the intention behind it or what inspired it, or a funny moment that happened, or just provides a little bit of context so that the audience has that alongside the art.
[00:27:07]Julie Ulstrup: I think there's room for both of those, quite honestly. I think that sometimes when we create art--because I believe we are all artists, we're all creators--we might not even know what or why or how it came about. So I think there's room for that. And then I think there's also room for sharing my story around the creation of art. And I think that there is a difference for me as the artist and for the person whose portrait I'm taking. This is only in my case of art, but they will have a different interpretation around it. And often what I will do--when I work with my clients to see their portraits for the first time, I will be quiet --I will share my favorites of course, but I will let them experience it. And then I will share with them: "Oh, I love how we captured this expression and this part of you." So I think there's an exchange back and forth and sometimes having some context is really important. So I think there's room for both.
[00:28:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, thank you again so much. And if anyone wants to connect with you either to learn more about your work or just connect with you in some other way, is there a way for them to do that?
[00:28:48] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. My website is my name, julieulstrup.com, and I'm also on Facebook as Julie Ulstrup Photography. So that's another good way to connect with me. Either one would be great.
[00:29:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you again, so very much. I'm a firm believer that when you share art with the world, you truly make it a better place. And so I just want to say thank you on behalf of myself at least, but also on behalf of the world for you sharing your, your love and your passion for photography with the world. Because I think what you do makes a difference and creates beauty. So thank you for that.
[00:29:34] Julie Ulstrup: You are welcome. Thank you, Lindsey.
[00:29:37] Lindsey Dinneen: All right. Well, that is all for today. Thank you so much for joining us. And if this episode has left you as inspired as it has me, I would absolutely love for you to share this with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:29:58] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:30:09] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have  incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out or dabbling or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level, they provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally, you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

Episode 013 - Grace Strachan

In this episode, I welcome Grace Strachan! Grace shares about her passion for the art of sending out greeting cards every single day, and the value of giving to give. She talks about the impact that a simple, heartfelt greeting card can have on someone's life. 
 
Get in touch with Grace Strachan: https://www.sendoutcards.com/u/greetingswithgrace | gracestrachan2014@gmail.com
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off all purchases!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 013 - Grace Strachan
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I  mean as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.
[00:00:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey, I'm your host and so excited to be sharing more stories about art with you. And I am especially delighted today to have as my guest, Grace Strachan. She is an amazing person, super kind, thoughtful-- I can go on and on--very generous, just a wonderful, wonderful lady. And I'm so excited to have her on because she has a unique platform for the way that she shares art with the world. And, I don't want to spoil it, so I won't give too much away, but I am just thrilled to have her on the show. And just to share a little bit about what her experience with art has been and how she continues to, to bring art into the world. And I think it's just an incredible story. So without further ado, thank you, Grace, for being here today.
[00:01:29]Grace Strachan: Thank you, Lindsey, for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here.
[00:01:33]Lindsey Dinneen: And Grace, I would love if you would share just a little bit about, you know, who you are a little bit about your story, whatever you kind of want to share. That'd be amazing.
[00:01:43]Grace Strachan: Thank you. Well, I actually, my background is in art. When I was a child, I actually took art lessons and had to go out and get a job to be able to pay for them. And so I actually drew and I also used to paint and I did photography. So my background was art. And then as I grew up, I actually ended up doing interior design. So again, very artistic, very color oriented. And then I spent the next, I dunno how many years of my life--I didn't end up doing interior design for very long . So I got to deal with your creative side, but I'm supplying, actually, products to the interior design, to market in commercial, as well as residential.
[00:02:29]But then now something that I actually fell in love with and got to be creative in a new way. And, I really consider it a lost art, and that is the art of communication and the art of card sending. So it was something that was very close to my heart because my mother always taught me that if you didn't send out a thank you card and thank somebody for a gift, you needed to give it back because you didn't show gratitude. And because it became a lost art and now it's becoming a big art, and something that people are really appreciating in their life. Again, I'm quite excited to be a big part of that new movement.
[00:03:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is incredible. Yeah, so, so definitely I'd love to hear your stories about, you know, about what that experience has brought to you.  I knew about the interior design, but I don't think I knew about growing up as an artist. So that's so fun. Do you still, do you still do any of that as well? Any drawing or the photography or anything like that right now?
[00:03:33] Grace Strachan: Well, I use the photography of course, for my cards and because I can download a picture onto a card.  I think you kind of suppress a lot of things. When I got married, it was just something that I just didn't do. And I'm seriously thinking about starting to maybe paint, draw again. And, I actually used to make my own clothes, too, so that's something I don't think I'll ever want to do again, but yeah, going back and drawing. And I think, yes, I think I'm seriously thinking about starting to do that again and maybe, drawing and painting and putting that on the cards as well.
[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah. Yeah. That would be amazing to have some of your original artwork on cards. That's really cool. So I would love to hear some of your stories about the way that writing and communication you were talking about . It's kind of a lost art. I'd love to hear more about your experience with that and, and just how it's impacted you and others, 'cause I know it's, it's really important.
[00:04:37] Grace Strachan: Thank you. Well, I have a couple stories I'd like to share with you. One of them is probably my favorite. I've been taught by Cody Bateman who actually owns a company that I'm associated with, Send Out Cards, to act on promptings. And what that means is that when somebody comes to your mind, to act on that, because that usually means that either they need to hear from you or you need to touch them. And one of the stories that I wanted to share was I had a boss who was probably the best boss I ever had in my life. And I actually worked for him for 13 years out of the 15 years with the company. And I had not seen him in about three or four years, and one morning I got up and the first person that came to my mind was him.
[00:05:23] And so I actually started, I actually decided to send him a card and you know, when I do something like that, I usually don't remember what I put on the card, but I remember that I wrote him a card and I pretty well said to him that he had been a mentor and that I had never, ever told him how much he meant to me. And that I felt bad that I hadn't ever told him that. But what I wrote, I don't really remember. I just remember that I felt good and I sent it. Well, three weeks later, I'm driving down, down the road in St. Louis with my other job that I had. And, I think pull over to the side of the road, 'cause my phone rang and there it was. And I hear, "Hey Gracious," which is what he called me. And I went, "Oh my goodness." And I couldn't believe it was Tom in this beautiful Southern accent. And I asked him how he was doing. And he said, "Good now." And I said, "Wow, that's great." And he said, "Yeah," he said, "I'm gonna tell you, I  just got back from a vacation. And we got our mail brought in. Oh, there's a card here from Grace." And his first reaction was, "Oh, I hope everything's okay."
[00:06:35] Well, Lindsey, my heart went into my throat. Oh yeah. I almost broke into tears at that time. And I realized right then and there that I hadn't, it was, I mean, it was a lost art. I had not been keeping in communication with them. He said, so him and Jo, they sat down and they read the card. He said, "We cried. And now I'm calling you." And he said, "And I just wanted to let you know, you totally made my day." He said, "I cried out of, of love." He said, "I've never had anybody tell me what they really thought of me and how a great mentor I had been to them." And he said, "You've probably made my entire year."
[00:07:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wow.
[00:07:24] Grace Strachan: That proves the point of the fact that the written word is a lost art because we don't bear our hearts to people. We don't tell people what we think and how we think of them and share with them our true feelings. And that card was just a stock card out of our, our card catalog. And with a few words in it, it wasn't even very creative in any way, shape or form, but it affected somebody that greatly. The biggest thing I got from this too, was the fact that no more was I going to not stay in contact with this man, because he had been such a mentor to me and I have not talked to him in four years. And that is really, really sad. So that's my first story. The second story that I, that I was going to tell was actually a different one, but I, I actually had something happen in my life. I had lost my husband three years ago, and I'm going to tell you that when I received all the cards that I received in the mail from all the people that I knew in my life, I could literally cover a complete dining room table and three other tables with cards, just from people sending me sympathy cards and saying how much they love me, how much they, you know, they cared about me and they were sending prayers.
[00:08:56] And a lot of those cards had pictures of my husband and myself in them, the best keepsakes I've ever had in my entire life. And that probably meant more to me than anything. And I left those cards up. It took me three months before I could take those cards down because I would literally every day go over and pick a different card and read it.  So it made me realize how much we, the lost art hasn't really been lost. It's just been kind of put on the sideline. And we're bringing it back, you know, it's not really a lost art. It's been a delayed art and now it's a part that's coming back.
[00:09:41]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That is beautiful. And I'm sure you have probably a bazillion stories like that to share of people that you've touched, that you didn't even necessarily know why they came to your mind, but I love--so you have a very particular practice and I'm not going to spoil it for our audience because I want you to tell about it, but you have a very particular practice that you do, with the cards on a daily basis. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and kind of why that's important?
[00:10:11] Grace Strachan: Yeah, we call them cards of gratitude. I get up every day and like I said, that that morning, when I sent that card to Tom, that was acting on a prompting. So I get up every day and the first person that comes to my mind gets a card. And again, that, that means something because you're giving to give and the beauty of giving to give is that when you give back, the universe gives back tenfold. When you give to get, and what that means is that when you give to get, you're expecting something in return. So like I said, when I sent that card to Tom, I didn't remember what I wrote in it. I mean, I just wrote it and sent it because that was my, my card of gratitude, telling him I was grateful for knowing him and having a part of my life.
[00:10:55] So I, I do that every day. And actually the, the owner of our company, Cody Bateman, wrote a book on promptings and it, and that's what it is. It's a prompting and yeah, it's teaching you to touch people because when they come to your mind, they come to your mind for a reason. And so I do that usually every morning. And I try now to do it every night because I find that when I do it every night, I sleep better, because I've touched somebody from my heart before I go to sleep as well. So it starts my day off, but it also ends my day in a, in a really great frame of mind. And whatever I love about it is that-- the other story I was going to tell, and I probably should is one of my very best friends.
[00:11:43] One day she came to my mind and I didn't know why. And I just said, Oh, so I'll just send her. And I just put in it something like, you know, you can't be everything to everybody, but guess what? You're the best to me, or something like that. Something very, you know, probably kind of corny. But anyway, I wrote it and I sent it and the next Friday, my husband and I, my husband was still alive-- we were at dinner and all of a sudden my phone rang and I thought, "Oh, I can't believe that she's calling me. She knows I'm out for dinner with my husband. So I got her voice message and all it was was "wmwmwmw," and it was just tears. So I'm thinking, Oh, I said to my husband, I said, "Yeah, I think I need to call her back, 'cause I think there's something major going on." I don't know what's going on.  I called her and she said, "Oh, I'm so glad you called me." She said, "I've had such a bad week. And you know, just everything had gone wrong and everything was bad. And, you know, we were supposed to be going camping and we weren't going to go. I was going to cancel it 'cause I've had such a bad week." And she just--and I went, "Okay, okay." And I said, "Are you okay now?" She said, "Oh yeah. I was ready to cancel our trip."
[00:12:53] And she said, "And I just had this prompting to go to the mailbox and pick up the mail." And she said, she walked to the mailbox and there in the mailbox was my card. It was the only thing in the mailbox. So she walked back to the front stoop and she opened it up and started crying because she said it was exactly what she needed to hear, that she couldn't be everything to everybody. And that was what she had been feeling all week. And she said, she says, "I picked up your car and took it in the house and got prepared for the camping weekend." So what you send does mean something to somebody and it could be that, that one thing that might make their whole day.
[00:13:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I would love to hear your thoughts on, on the impact of words in particular, because I know that when you act on your promptings and you're sending these cards, you're obviously putting a lot of thought and care into the message that you're sending. And so I'd just love to hear a little bit about, you know, your process. So when somebody comes to mind and you decide to send them a card, how does it work from there essentially? Is there a particular pattern you follow when you write these cards, or how does that work for you?
[00:14:08] Grace Strachan: Actually, you'll be surprised to know there is none. Amazingly enough, I learned very quickly that when the prompting comes, it comes for a reason. Now I've had things happen where I've thought, huh? Why, you know, I just talked to that person. Why did that person come to my mind? And what's weird about it is there is no rhyme or reason, and I've had it happen where, I've, I've literally sent a card, and that afternoon, that person called me and said, "Oh, you know, I needed to talk to you." And, and something stressful had happened to them that day or whatever. And I've literally gone back into our system because our cards don't get mailed or don't get printed until after midnight. And so I've literally gone back into the system and changed what's been written in the card because they've told me something that's been stressful or something, and I needed to add to it. But typically the cards I write, I usually get out of my head, because I think if you try too hard to think about what you're going to write, it doesn't sound like you. So normally what I do is I sit back and I calm myself and I say, "Okay, why did this person come to my mind?"
[00:15:26] And a lot of the time it'll be guilt because I haven't talked to them for a while or I haven't communicated what I needed to communicate. And so then what I'll just do is just let, I really just let God do his work. And it comes to me and a lot of the time it can be maybe a phrase. It can be a couple sentences. I've been known to write paragraphs because depending on the person, but I really, there is no rhyme or reason. I just let my heart tell me what to write. And I've been known to only write a couple of words even. And I don't know, I don't know if that's affected somebody or not, because you don't, some people you hear from them, some you don't. I don't give to get, so I don't know. I've had people tell me six or eight months later, you know? "Oh, that card you sent me. I really appreciated it because such and such was happening that day." And, and, you know, and you don't know that that's happening. So I, I can't really say that there is a rhyme or reason to what I write, except that I don't try too hard. Does that make sense?
[00:16:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, and I think that in, in and of itself is an art that you can allow yourself to sort of sit with that prompting and then from there, allow the words that come to you to go into your card. I think that that is, that is great. Like you said, you don't want to, you don't want to think about it too much. You don't want to kind of force it because then you're not being maybe authentic. I think that's really neat.
[00:17:02] Grace Strachan: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:03] Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. And I, I know, I know you touch a lot of lives through that and I think it's--you've said a couple of times that you, you give to give. And I think that that is really beautiful and, and really important, you know, obviously. So,  I'm lucky, I'm a beneficiary of some of the cards that Grace has sent and they're always so beautiful and thoughtful and, and I'll, I'll have her share a little bit later about the platform that she uses. But I just want to say that it is, it is incredible because with that particular platform, you get to kind of design the card to an extent, and you can include pictures and obviously your own words. So for example, from Grace, I've gotten a picture of my cast after we finished our Nutcracker production for the very first time. She sent me this cast photo and it, it's perfect because frankly I probably would have never printed it out. And now I have a framed copy of it, which is so lovely to be able to, to have that memory, you know, in, in print form. Well, Grace, I have a couple of questions for you if that's okay.  So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:18:22]Grace Strachan: Well, I think art is in the eye of the beholder. I really believe that. I consider art nature. I consider art beauty. I consider art feelings. I consider art love. I really believe that art is all around us. I don't think we appreciate art the way we should appreciate art. I get very sad when I hear about them taking art out of the schools. I just think that is the most, I don't know how to say it in a very polite way, but wrong. I'll just say it.
[00:18:58] Lindsey Dinneen: There you go!
[00:18:59]Grace Strachan: It's just, it's totally wrong. One of the biggest reasons I, I got into art as a child was because I happened to have a very good school system where we were taught art. And so I took, and then I ended up taking art on, you know, outside of school as well. So I think art is so important and it makes people creative. It helps children blossom in so many ways . And I think we, we tend to not appreciate the art around us. I grew up in a small city in Canada. So I grew up with art all around me, and I've always been, I felt very blessed by that because to have the theater and having that around me, I think gave me a different aspect and a different look on life. I ended up getting into working in theater and doing makeup and, and doing some backstage stuff when I lived in Canada. And that is, that's something that I could never, ever, ever, be lucky enough to repeat again. So I think art is just everywhere and everything.
[00:20:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I agree. I love that answer. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:20:14]Grace Strachan: To share their gift. To make sure that everybody is aware of their gift and to be proud of their gift. I think there's too many artists that, you know, I mean, I always remember hearing people say, "Oh, they want to be an artist. What are they going to do to make a living?" I find that sad. I find that very negative. I think what's wonderful about life now is that most people have more than one means of income. So artists have the advantage. Now there's a lot of ways that they can make a living, maybe not making okay, total living, but at least help support their art. And so I think the biggest thing is that people, when you have somebody that shows artistic talent, nurture that and, and have them share that with the world.
[00:21:08]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. Okay. And then for my final question, I'll explain my terms a little bit, but it's--do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is exclusive referring to when an artist creates something and they put it out in the world, and they let the audience take from it, what they will without any real context to it. So that means that maybe we don't know the intention behind it, or we don't know the way that the artist was feeling at the time, or even what they necessarily want to communicate. Versus inclusive referring to, you know, the artists create something and they share their intention with the audience. So perhaps that's program notes or they at least have a title and description, or just basically something so they can help the audience understand the intention behind it. Regardless of what the audience draws from it, if that makes sense.
[00:22:09] Grace Strachan: Wow. That's heavy. That's a very, that's heavy, a deep topic. I think it depends on the art. Yeah. I think some, some art has to be very inclusive because I think there sometimes needs to be an explanation behind what the artist is trying to show. But exclusive also. I really cannot not say one or the other. I really believe that it should depend completely on the artist if they want to be inclusive or exclusive.
[00:22:46]Lindsey Dinneen:  Well, thank you so much for sharing, Grace. I so appreciate the time that you took today to tell us about all those stories, about the impact of words and being generous and giving back. And I would love if you wanted to share a little bit about how people can get connected with you, even about the platform that you use.
[00:23:06]Grace Strachan: Thank you so much. I would love to. Actually it is Send Out Cards and my Canadian comes out when I say "out," that's probably the only time people know I'm Canadian. And the best way to reach me is at www.sendoutcards.com/greetingswithgrace. And that is a platform that, that is my website. If you go there, please send a free card on me. Try out the system, take it for a spin, see what you think. And, and let me know. Another way to reach me is by email and it so, it's Grace and my last name is S T R A C H A N 2014 at gmail.com.
[00:24:00]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yes. And I would highly encourage anyone listening who is curious about the platform to definitely check it out. It is just a really neat way to send cards that are very unique. Grace, you actually have a phrase that you've been sharing that I love. Do you know what I'm talking about?
[00:24:21]Grace Strachan: I have a feeling, I know what you're talking about.
[00:24:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:24:25]Grace Strachan: That we have a high touch product in a no touch world.
[00:24:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful.
[00:24:31] Grace Strachan: Is that what you were talking about?
[00:24:32] Lindsey Dinneen: That's exactly what I was talking about. Yeah.
[00:24:35]Grace Strachan:  People need to know that, what we, what I believe I do is that I take those memories, those photos, the artwork--a lot of the people have photos in their phones. I mean, what do you do with them? Look at them, right? Well, I can take those photos off of Facebook that you share, pieces of art, may put them into JPEGs or PNGs and, and literally put them on a card. And send them out to your grandmother, who you don't get to see; your mother, who hasn't been able to see you maybe in six weeks, and share a memory that is a tangible touch. It doesn't fade away. It doesn't go away in your mind. It is something that you can share with somebody else and share that love and memory forever. And what we send, people keep.
[00:25:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I just want to say, Grace, on behalf of the world. thank you so much for sharing art. I think it's vital. I think it's so important that, that you are blessing people with--you have so much art, not just in that, in the card sending, but just in general. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I think you, I truly believe that when you do that, you make the world a more inclusive and beautiful and generous place. So thank you.
[00:26:04] Grace Strachan: Thank you, Lindsey. And I just want to say one thing, you know, during this time, being, being kind and showing gratitude is kind of, and again, and I'm really hoping, I don't know about you, but I don't want to go back to the old norm. I want kindness and gratitude, love to stay around for a long time. So, amen. I hope if nothing great comes out of this time that we've had to put up with, at least this will stay with us for a long time.
[00:26:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I absolutely agree. Absolutely. Well, thank you again, Grace, for joining us. Thank you for all the listeners who've joined us too. If this episode has left you as inspired as it has left me, I would be delighted if you would share it with a friend or two, and continue to spread art and joy into the world, and we will catch you next time.
[00:26:55]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:27:07] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have  incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling, or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase, and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

Episode 012 - David Weinraub

In this episode, I welcome David Weinraub! He has been involved in professional theater productions, musical theater, and rock-and-roll bands, and talks about how his involvement with art has changed throughout the years with various life seasons.
 
Connect with David Weinraub: https://www.facebook.com/david.weinraub.5
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 12 - David Weinraub
Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told ,where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.
[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.
[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my heart into the world.
[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever, really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.
[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.
[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to have as my guest today, David Weinraub, and thank you so much, David, for joining me. I'm so delighted to speak with you today.
[00:00:49] David Weinraub: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to participate.
[00:00:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, I would love if you would start by sharing just a little bit about who you are and maybe some of your involvement in art.
[00:01:01] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, my name is David. I am a child of the seventies and grew up playing music. That turned into a love of rock and theater. As I continued to grow and after college, I began pursuing a career as an actor and did that and was able to pay my bills for a few years and then found a part-time job that turned into a full-time job in an office that I really enjoyed, and realized I can still continue to do art no matter what. I could still play music, I could still act, but I could also--didn't have to pursue it as my full-time gig, and continued to act. I met my wife. We were the only two people with day jobs on a six night a week dinner theater show, and we dated, got married a few years later, had a kid, and then I kind of dropped out of the art world for a while.
[00:01:55] I stopped performing when our son was born and I didn't get back to it until about three years ago, and I've been going nonstop ever since, and I love it. And I love that I can share with my family. I love that I can share it with the world, and I'm just having a great time continuing to make music and, and perform. So that's me in a reader's digest nutshell.
[00:02:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yeah. I mean, I know that there are many, many layers to your stories of course, but that's great. I'm so glad you're back into it. And I love that you met your wife through that. That is wonderful.
[00:02:29] David Weinraub: Yeah, no, we would be, it was a dinner theater. So, you know, you, you get a paycheck just for performing, but you make more money by waiting tables, and we had day jobs and weren't able to get down to the theater in time for the dinner service before the show. So we would hang out backstage. It would just be the two of us, and that's how we really bonded and fell in love. So the theater has been great for us in many, many ways.
[00:02:53] Lindsey Dinneen: It sounds like it. That is awesome. Wonderful. Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe some stories of times where art has impacted you, or even hear a little bit about, you know, the various projects that you're embarking on now.
[00:03:06] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, I guess my love of theater started in college. I was a Shakespeare fiend. I was an English major and I loved reading Shakespeare and analyzing Shakespeare, talking about it, and then my senior year, they were going to be doing "Henry the 4th," parts one and two in their entirety in the spring. And I decided in the fall, well, since they're doing it in the spring, I should audition. So they think I'm interested and then I can be a spear carrier, a soldier. And so I can just say I acted in one Shakespeare play. And I auditioned in the fall for a show called the "Prince of Homburg," which is a 16th century German piece very similar to the themes of "Henry the 4th."
[00:03:52]So a young upstart Prince doesn't really know how to become a leader and goofs off a lot, but then becomes a leader in his own right. And, I, I got cast in a pretty good role and I loved it. And, then from that point forward, all of my focus turned towards theater. I was able to complete a theater minor in an entire year before graduation. And then right after college, I just kept going with it. So it started with the love of Shakespeare. I worked for the Annapolis Shakespeare--I think it's under new management now--but the Annapolis Shakespeare Company after college. I did some modern dramas and black box theaters in downtown DC, which no longer exist.
[00:04:34] And then, I was auditioning a lot in New York while performing in DC and, then, fell into the dinner theater, 'cause I realized if I wanted to make money, I couldn't just do Shakespeare or weird modern dramas. The money was in musicals. And I played in bands in high school, in college as well. So I sang a little bit, but I started taking voice lessons and I got cast in a production of "Jesus Christ Superstar" as Pilot in the Giant Theater in Frederick, Maryland.
[00:05:07] And, then I, I just kept doing musicals for awhile. And then I met Catherine and we got married. We worked together on four shows in dinner theater and then did a few more after we got married in community theater in the Northern Virginia area. And then our son was born, and that was amazing, but we dropped out of performing in theater and started attending theater. We became a Shakespeare Theater subscribers and Kennedy Center subscribers. And that was just amazing as well, just to be able to enjoy something from the other side, which when you're performing six nights a week, you don't have as much time to see.
[00:05:42]I thought I still needed some sort of creative outlet when he was little, and then a friend of mine who I worked with who was in a band, asked me if I wanted to join his band. And the good thing about playing music--you can kind of take gigs when they become available to you, but also you can rehearse when it works for the whole band. All of us had day jobs. We were just, we called ourselves a bunch of old dudes who just got together and played when we could. And, we were getting more gigs, playing bars and stuff than we were able to take, because people travel for irregular job work and the children's calendars, you know, we had sports for our kids and stuff like that.
[00:06:19] And we just played when we could. The band was called the Black Shag Sherpas, and I think they still have a website. I'm not sure if there are any original members left in that band or if they're still playing, but they played some great funky, weird rock, jazz hybrid music along with some covers. So that was fun. So I never stepped away from art or music. I just found an outlet. And then how I got back into it-- the dinner theater where Catherine and I had met closed down and they had a reunion picnic. So people who had worked there from the time it opened in the mid-seventies, till the time it shut down in 2016, everyone was invited.
[00:07:06] And, I started talking to friends from the theater who I had not seen in 13 years, and I was telling them about playing in bands and they said, "Oh, you play in bands. Do you think you could get a band together to play the 'Rocky Horror Show?'" And I said, "I think I can." And that is how I got pulled into music, directing the "Rocky Horror Show" for the Workhouse Arts Theater in Lorton. And that's what started my journey into theater nonstop. Once again, began with the "Rocky Horror Show" in 2016.
[00:07:39]Lindsey Dinneen:  Wow. That is a really interesting trajectory. I mean, you, you have dabbled in all--well, not dabbled, you're a professional; I didn't mean it like that--but you have gotten to experience so many different outlets for your art. And I love the fact that even if you couldn't do what you had originally started doing throughout your entire career, you've actually helped yourself grow as an artist. Would you say that? That, you know, because you've been able to do so many different things?
[00:08:06] David Weinraub: Definitely! I mean, just sitting back as, as an active participant, as an observer, you learn so much from watching others and not, not that I would ever think, "Oh, I can do that better than so and so," 'cause I never thought that, but you, you can enjoy what they are doing and you can learn from the things you are seeing.
[00:08:25]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Absolutely. Well, do you have any specific things that come to mind as inspiration for maybe a new direction that you took, or just an encounter with art that may have really impacted you and helped you on this trajectory?
[00:08:40] David Weinraub: One of the more recent things I worked on, with one of your previous guests, was a production of "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" for Dominion Stage, which is a very difficult piece. Andrew Jackson is a very divisive figure, especially nowadays. He was a horrible, horrible man who grew the size of the United States a quintuple fold from what it was by doing awful, awful things, which were admired at the time by many. His story was turned into a rock musical before "Hamilton" and it ran on Broadway very briefly. It was not well received.
[00:09:19] But, working with Dani Guy as the director, when she asked me to be involved, I wanted to, because I loved the music. It is just dirty rock and roll, which I love. And also the band gets to be on stage and interact with the other performers. So that's always fun. I was able to put together--I call them the best band in the world--'cause they are. And, we all listened to one another when we play and we listened to what's going on onstage. So if you show up night one, it might sound a little different than night two if someone plays something or acts in a slightly different way, we're going to react to it, the band or actors too. But working with this collaborative group of people, we made something really, really special and very poignant. And, you know, it sucks that there is no venue for live theater right now, nor should there be 'til it is safe to return to it. But to go out on a note like that was, you know, at the end of February, was not a bad thing to go out on it, to have in my recent memory.
[00:10:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So Dani did share a little bit about her experience with that too. And it sounds like it was just an incredible experience for everyone involved and brought out a lot of conversation about art. I mean, did--what were the reactions that you kind of encountered personally, positive or negative?
[00:10:39]David Weinraub: All positive in terms of, "This was a powerful piece." No one thought that we were doing anything wrong, who I spoke to. You know, we were pointing out, through beauty, we were able to point out some of the horrible things that have happened, and are continuing to happen, in this world, you know, through the power of performance, through the power of rock and roll, and dance and, and movement. I'm struggling to define what it was 'cause it is such a strange piece. But it was so beautiful the way it, it all came together. Does that make any sense?
[00:11:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. She, she shared about getting some mixed reactions and how she, as the director, wanted to help everyone kind of navigate through some criticism that, you know, all art gets. I mean, we all have dealt with that at some point, and her outlook was so, so amazing to me because she just--I love her approach of using people's criticism to really think through a different perspective. And I think that's a really wonderful thing that she brought to that production in particular. So I know it's kind of, we're kind of in a weird place right now, but do you have anything coming up that you're excited about? Or how, how are you still able to kind of express yourself and be artful in these crazy days?
[00:12:01] David Weinraub: Well, the amazing thing about artists is they always find a way to create, regardless of the circumstances. And I have many friends who have created online venues for us to do so. I've worked with a landless theater company as an actor. I did a production of "Puffs" with them last year, which is a "Harry Potter" spoof, and they are going to be releasing very soon some virtual performances. We recorded one, called "The Walking Fred," which is a spoof of "The Walking Dead," as told through the prism of the Flintstones.
[00:12:41]So, we recorded it via Zoom and they're putting, you know, special effects on it to make it look like we're, we all have the same backgrounds and that sort of thing. So hopefully that will be coming out soon. So that was a nice outlet to be able to act. And then, I have a friend, who is an amazing actor-singer, and he's also, he, hosts a number of drag brunches and drag bingos as "Lips," and Lips has a new show, which is a virtual drag, a talent show, and he asked me to work on some songs for it. So I was able to write some songs and I, I'm a dirty rock and roll player. I like playing live with groups of people. You know, I will play one instrument at a time, with groups of people, but by doing it this way, and him asking me to write something, I had to learn how to use Garage Band that was able to record myself, you know, multi-track it.
[00:13:34] So I'm playing all the instruments for, for this piece. So that should be out soon as well. So "Lips Virtual Drag Cabaret." So I'm, I'm finding things to keep me busy. I'm taking advantage of all that, that others are creating as well. Now that I have more time in the evenings, I'm watching it all. You know, there are so many people putting out--they're doing Zoom play readings. I was able to work with Dani again, and this was just for fun. I don't believe it was recorded, but as a stage reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," which is an amazing, Chekhovian, very dark drama. I don't think it was meant to be a comedy, but it kind of turned into one looking at it through 21st century prism. But we had a lot of fun just reading that. So there, there are always outlets to do things.
[00:14:19]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. Now you mentioned writing songs. Was that something you had done before, or is that a little bit newer to you?
[00:14:26] David Weinraub: I have written songs for rock bands before, but I'd never recorded in a studio, you know, with engineers hanging around and stuff. But I never pursued it as something that I wanted to get out there and publish. The Black Shag Sherpas, which I mentioned before, we put out a four-song EP, which you could probably find online. But ever since then, since I got back into theater, I really haven't done any writing. So this was a nice outlet to do it once again. So this was just an, a fun, goofy, 1970s, disco rock. I was told to think of superheroes. So I was thinking of, you know, a combination of the "Wonder Woman" theme and, you know, seventies disco era Rolling Stones. And I put that together in my head to come up with a, with a theme song for them.
[00:15:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, neat. Well, that sounds incredible. I'm sure that's going to be great. Yeah, that's really neat. So I'm just curious, how has--or if, if it hasn't, that's fine too--but yeah, I guess more accurately, has becoming a father changed the way that you view art or create art?
[00:15:33] David Weinraub: Definitely. I'm always looking at things through, through my son's eyes now. Is this something that I think he would appreciate? Not that it always--I don't expect a, he's now 16 years old, so I don't expect him to like everything I like, and he wouldn't be a cool teenager if he did-- but, the answer is yes, it forces you to see things in a different way. And now thinking, like going to museums with him when he was very young, you know, we might take advantage of looking at an impressionist painting for the first time, but seeing it through the eyes of a three-year-old in a stroller, totally changes the way you take something in.
[00:16:08] And not that he understood the brushstrokes or the whole backstory of the impressionist or anything, and he just appreciated the art for what it was, you know, to him and seeing something with that freshness without having the 20-plus years of your experience on top of it lends you to appreciate it in a new way, totally different take on this. I don't know if you've ever watched the television show called "Community" from 10 years ago?
[00:16:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I have. I just actually recently got into it. What a fun show.
[00:16:37] David Weinraub: It's a great show and I loved it when it first aired, but he was too young to watch it then. So, we were watching it together now from the beginning and something simple and easily accessible on Netflix, just watching it through his eyes and all of the, the pop culture references that it makes, you know, discussing them with him. And then going back if they talked about, well, you know, all that makes a joke about a Martin Scorsese film, then we can pause and talk about Martin Scorsese, and then we can go back and watch a Scorsese film together. You know, a "Good Fellows" the next day. So, always looking at things through new eyes is, is, you know, through someone else's eyes and someone else's experience--it's convenient when they're in the same house as you, so you can discuss it too.
[00:17:21]Lindsey Dinneen: That's a great perspective. And it's, it's so interesting to hear how things change, you know, when you are getting the opportunity to experience them through somebody else's eyes, or with somebody who might also not share your opinion, and, and get to really explore that a bit.
[00:17:39] David Weinraub: Yeah, definitely. And while my son has seen many of the shows that I've worked on in the last three years, there are some that he has expressed absolutely no interest in at all once I've told them about it. And, I did a very strange show at the DC Fringe Festival last year, as an actor. It was a show called "Inferno," which was a modern take on Dante's "Inferno" as a musical. It is not for everybody. It, it won like some Best of Fringe Audience Awards. But I, I didn't think that that was something--I told him about it-- and he said, "No, I'm not interested in something that weird at all." And he did not see it, but that's okay.
[00:18:18] Lindsey Dinneen: It is okay. Well, and is he interested in being involved? Is he involved in the arts himself or does he just enjoy experiencing it or what does he like?
[00:18:27] David Weinraub: He is a very talented drummer. I'm, I'm so jealous. I, I, that's the one thing I never took lessons in, so I don't really know how to play drums. I can fake my way through it, but he is really, really good and takes lessons. And, he started the FaceTime lessons during this time with his teacher, since you can't do it in person, but, yeah, so he, he has some musical ability. He does not like performing in front of people though. He's finishing up his sophomore year in high school. He does stage crew, and he has designed some lighting grids for one of the shows at his school, but he has no desire to act or to, you know, be in marching band or anything like that. And as long as he's enjoying himself playing drums, I want him to keep playing drums. But it's not something that we force, nor do we expect him to do anything just because we tell him he has to.
[00:19:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, he's forging his own path. I love it. Well, thank you. That was so interesting to hear about your life's trajectory and also the different, really unique experiences that you've had and the ways that they've helped you grow and adopt as an artist. And so thank you for sharing about that.  That is really neat what you've been able to do.
[00:19:47] David Weinraub: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
[00:19:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, if it's okay with you, I always like to ask my guests a couple of questions, completely subjective, just about your views on a couple of things related to art, is that okay?
[00:20:00] David Weinraub: Sure.
[00:20:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Great. Okay. So the first thing is, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?
[00:20:10] David Weinraub: That's not an easy question. I personally, I define art as anything that can enhance an emotion. I can go outside and I can see, you know, a turtle on my back deck who somehow found its way, you know, up the stairs to onto the porch. And, I find beauty in that and therefore that is art. To me, it elicits an emotion when it happens. Some people say that's where they see God in the world. And, I think in some ways, God and art are synonymous.
[00:20:54]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that answer. That's a pretty unique approach to it that I've heard so far. And I, I like that perspective a lot. Thank you for that. So the second question I have is, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:21:12] David Weinraub: The most important role of an artist is, is to bring out that emotion. This is going to sound really cheesy, but the biggest compliment, I, I--the happiest I've ever been after getting a compliment after a show was when I was music directing "Rock of Ages," which is a very silly show, 1980s rock music. The band, again, is on stage the whole time, just as in "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." The show doesn't have much of a point though, but, if you had seen the show on Broadway, you might've had a fantastic time. If you had seen the show at the Workhouse, we made it look like a real bar and it was a small intimate space. The band was right in the audience's face and yes, we were very well rehearsed and we knew our parts, but we played from the heart. We didn't necessarily play every single note exactly as written. It was not slick. And so that's what someone said to me after the show. That moved me so much because that band was, was reacting to the crowd and reacting to the actors on stage. We weren't just playing, you know, it didn't sound like a recording to them. And, that is what an artist is supposed to do. We're supposed to elicit an emotion. And even if it's, you know, playing an REO Speedwagon song, if it works, it works.
[00:22:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to an artist who shares a little bit about their work with whoever their audience is. So if that's a dancer, perhaps they share what inspired the choreography, or if that's a painter, maybe it's a title or a brief description. Versus exclusive kind of referring to the artist puts their work out there and then leaves it open to interpretation.
[00:23:11]David Weinraub:   I think art is always open to interpretation. However, I think that art should be inclusive. I don't think the point of an artist is to say only a few people can get this. If you don't understand what I'm doing, you are not a smart person. I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's right. I think that art should be made for everybody. Having said that, having participated in that reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," I'm not sure if you could put a production of the "Duchess of Malfi" on stage right now and expect someone who knows nothing about Jacobian-era language to understand every single moment of it. So you have to figure out a way to make that accessible to anyone who might show up. So it is on the, the artist's shoulders to, yes, allow for some interpretation of their art, but also to, to make it accessible to those who may not understand a hundred percent of it. Or like pausing "Community" when I'm watching it with my son, to explain the cultural references.
[00:24:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because it enriches the experience. Otherwise it would just go flying over and, you know, not be a point of education and conversation. That makes complete sense. Yeah. Love it. Well, thank you again so very much, David, for joining me. I really appreciate it. And I, am very passionate about art and about sharing it, and I'm very grateful for people like you, who do take what they have and what they've developed, their different skill sets over the years, and then they do share that with the world and they give back. And I think, when you choose to do that, you truly make the world a better, more beautiful place. So on behalf of myself, thank you for sharing art with the world. I know I appreciate it.
[00:25:05] David Weinraub: And thank you, Lindsey, for bringing it to people's attention. This is a great forum. So thank you again for having me on.
[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And if people want to stay in touch with you, maybe find out about some of your upcoming productions, whether they're, you know, in person or online, is there a way for them to do that?
[00:25:26]David Weinraub: So the best way to just follow me on Facebook, just my name, David Weinraub. I don't have any other social media outlets right now.
[00:25:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you again, David, for being here. Thank you to all of our listeners for joining us again. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love for you to share this episode with a friend or two, and I will catch you next time.
[00:25:53] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
[00:26:04] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products and courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

Episode 011 - Heidi Loubser

In this episode, I welcome Heidi Loubser! Heidi is a professional dancer and currently in school to earn her degree in math. She brings a unique perspective to art with her scientifically-inclined mind, and shares about the YouTube video that completely changed her dance training trajectory.
 
Connect with Heidi Loubser: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XhnMolqfEN56S8wJLGspw
Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.com
Schedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview
Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!
 
Intro & Outro Music Credits:
Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
SHOW NOTES:
Episode 11 - Heidi Loubser
 
Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello! Welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to be sharing more art with you today. And I'm very privileged to have an absolutely wonderful person as my guest today. Her name is Heidi Loubser and she is a beautiful artist in many capacities, and I'm excited to hear more about all the different things that she does, but I know that she is an accomplished dancer and has been training, goodness, probably your whole life. So I'm sure I'll get to hear about that, but thank you so much, Heidi, for being on the show today.
[00:00:45]Heidi Loubser: Yes. I'm excited.
[00:00:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And let's just go ahead and hear a little bit from you about who you are or your background, kind of whatever you want to share.
[00:00:55]Heidi Loubser: Sure. So my name is Heidi, as she said, and I'm 21 years old. I was born in  Pretoria, South Africa, and I lived there until I was eight years old. So that definitely shaped my early life. And then I've lived in the US since then. I grew up with my mother and both of my two older sisters dancing. So that was just always normal being at the ballet studio, did the "Nutcracker" every year, and just got more into it. As I got older, I decided to move more into contemporary and modern dance and that really caused me to look other places 'cause the studio I was training at was wonderful, but didn't offer especially any modern. So that's how I ended up in Kansas City at a program called Storling's Artist Development Program, trained there for two years.
[00:01:46] And that was really a great fit for me. I looked at college programs, but ADP was cheaper and a shorter time commitment and had more time in the studio, which is really what I wanted. I've also been in college sort of on and off part-time, full-time online in person, community colleges, all different combinations. And I studied math. I was studying physics and I've finally decided on math. So I have one year left of studying math and I dance with a company in town called Storling, and I'll be doing that again which I really love. So yeah, I think that's, that's pretty much me. I have the science brain and the art brain and I enjoy using them both.
[00:02:34]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So you only have one year left. Oh, that's so exciting. I kind of remember, you know, when it was like a little more into the weeds for a while, and I know that's--at least now you can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel there.
[00:02:48] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. And the classes are getting harder. So I'm--but I know that there's a finish line.
[00:02:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Do you have plans for that degree yet? I mean, I know plans are so wonky these days, but in theory, do you have any thoughts about what you want to do?
[00:03:09] Heidi Loubser: Right. So that's such a great question that has gone through so many transitions in my mind. Getting a college degree has always been an expectation in my family. It's also always been a privilege, definitely, that it has been possible in my family that I could pursue a degree. So that was kind of something that I just always knew: I'm getting a college degree. So the transitions have been in what my major would be. And then as I've progressed in dance and realized really just a few years ago that it was actually something I could do professionally, which I didn't know for a really long time, I kind of thought, "Oh, well, maybe I am not going to do whatever my major field is right away. So my degree most recently was actually in math, secondary education, so to teach in a high school, and I really would like to pursue performance, and other aspects of dance now, especially, as everyone says, while you're younger, take the time to do the dancing.
[00:04:10]And then, I mean, my interest in general long-term is definitely in education. I teach dance currently, which I really love and want to continue to do and to invest in dance education. So I've always joked that if I could, you know, be a professor at a university and teach in both the math, science, and dance departments.  That, that would sort of be my dream that would require about three master's degrees. So I don't think that's what we're actually going to do, but okay, I don't know. Being a professor has always been of some interest. I also, I've grown more and more interested in dance science. A lot of people suggested sort of physical therapy and things like that to me.
[00:04:51] And I'm really not interested in that. I remember I recently had a conversation with someone who's getting their masters in dance science and that was really interesting to me because I think especially as an educator, there's just a lot of practices I see in the classroom that I'm going, "Why are we still doing this?" You know, when we have the science to tell us what's helpful and what's not helpful. And then also there are just some standards that I see in the dance world that I don't think are healthy.  There's a crazy push for flexibility and just things like that.
[00:05:22] So yeah, I can sort of imagine myself going into dance science, but I'm a people person. So I don't know that I want to live my life in a laboratory, but that's the only way I really see them connecting. I think otherwise it's more just the, the logic part of it, I think, you know, and the critical thinking aspect. I think that's just how I teach dance is from a very analytical perspective. This is, you know, the precise way you need to do this step to do it correctly. And I think about it in the same way that I think about math, rather than I'm trying to make this step look pretty or something like that.
[00:06:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:06:02]Heidi Loubser: The plans are just, they're up in the air, obviously.
[00:06:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course, of course. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I think, I think what's interesting is you bring a different approach to both your own performing and your teaching style. And I think that that's really unique and great, and I love--I think your approach is very in general, problem-solving, which I like, because I think that makes it a little more rich than simply--much more rich, to kind of have that approach rather than just like, "Hey, it's wrong. It needs to be fixed." But like "How?" because that's always a difficult thing.
[00:06:39] Heidi Loubser: And how much of that is changeable? I mean, especially in dance, you're working with the physical body, so there's a huge amount of like, how much are we trying to induce a feeling or an experience for the audience, and how much is that tied to aesthetically what you can produce? Because there's certainly a correlation, you know? I mean, that's why we have techniques that try to develop dancers that can produce certain kinds of positions and shapes and movements, but on the other hand, is that ultimately what's giving the audience, you know, the experience that they're having? I mean, there's so much room for, for things like artistry and that to contribute. So yeah, definitely problem solving. How can we share what we want to with the audience?
[00:07:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah, I love it. Well, I know you have at least one story to share with us, so I would love to hear what you have to say.
[00:07:35] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. So when I first read your post asking for encounters with art, this is the one that immediately came to mind. And I think it was the first one because it was both--it was the first in a lot of areas, I guess, is the best way to put it. So there is a company in Houston, Texas called Ad Deum company, run by Randall Flynn, and they're a company that their vision really centers on the intersection of dance and Christian faith. They really strive to authentically share their faith and hope, love, joy, peace--these good things from the Lord--with their audience through their movement.
[00:08:16] So I actually first discovered them on the wonderful platform of YouTube,  and what's amazing about Randy, about the director, is he's really put up a lot of their work on YouTube. So there are hundreds of videos that you can go watch. And especially in high school, when I was just trying to figure out what I thought about dance. And I was in a church, in a Christian school, and a Christian home, and really wondered, you know, what does dance look like in the context of my faith? And I found these YouTube videos and I started watching them and I was really blown away.
[00:08:53] First of all, I had never really seen modern dance before, classical modern dance. And I just loved the movement, totally fell in love. So it was the first in that area, but then also they weren't necessarily using Christian songs or even songs with lyrics. They were using instrumental music. The piece I'm going to speak about was a song that's been used in tons of different contexts called, "This Bitter Earth."
[00:09:18] And, I just stumbled across this video one day called, "This Bitter Earth," and I watched, and I was totally engaged. For one, I don't think I've ever been that engaged watching, especially a video with dance. It's so much better live, but I was really captivated, and basically the piece is just showing the tension between, you know, hope, but so many things to pull you away from hope in the world. At least that's really what I've experienced in the piece. And at the end of the piece, you know, there's two people that are circling in the middle and then there's people running around on the outside and it gets faster and there's more movement on the outside.
[00:09:56]And at the very end, these two people are looking away from each other. It's maybe a six minute piece and they just grab hands and they look at each other and it was really powerful for me. And I know that sounds super cheesy. There are so many pieces where it's like the look, the dramatic moment. But I, I think it really worked because it wasn't, it wasn't over done. They weren't necessarily trying to make a big dramatic moment. It was just sincere, sincere human connection of like, it's going to be okay. You know, there are a lot of troubles in this world, but like hope really is a real thing.
[00:10:35] And then that same year, actually, I loved this company so much. And I, as I said, was just in a season of exploration and in the dance world. I took a Greyhound bus to Houston, stayed in a hostel and went to this company spring intensive, and they actually performed that piece. It's choreographed by Steve Rooks in their studio. They did a little in-studio showing, which was really special for me to see it live. And I've had the opportunity to see it multiple times since then. It's been performed other places, but it was just very, very touching in terms of-- you know, you're not giving me a message and you're not saying words, but I'm really experiencing the virtue of hope is really, I think the best way I can put it.
[00:11:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, it sounds like that kind of helped you--well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, this is just sort of something that I kind of got from it-- it sounds like it really kind of helped you, realize maybe a little bit more of, of how your faith and dance could intersect.
[00:11:36]Heidi Loubser: Yes. It's not necessarily, it has to look like this, but just, this is an option and I don't think it was an option I had seen or experienced before. Not that you can't do it a different way. Not that you always need to intentionally intersect them, but just this is possible and this can be really powerful. So it was such high quality dancing. And I think that was also huge, you know, because I had seen Ballet Magnificat, which is a beautiful company. They do really amazing work, but as I said, I had never seen really modern dance. And so I think it was just that like, wow, it is an option to do modern dance and to share really good and beautiful and powerful things. And to not have to use words or to be direct, you can truly use the art form of dance. It was just so cool to, like, see that option.
[00:12:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And from that, sort of launching point for you, how did that kind of change your trajectory as far as--I mean, I know you mentioned, you know, you'd grown up more in ballet and then were trying to explore more contemporary modern-- is that what pivoted you towards, towards that? Or how did that then impact the rest of your, your journey?
[00:12:53] Heidi Loubser: Hm. So I actually, I had begun exploring contemporary modern before, and I actually, I'm realizing I wasn't quite truthful earlier. I saw that piece maybe two years before I went to Houston. I wrote a paper my senior year of high school. I was in a course called Communication and Culture. And I wrote a research paper abou, Christianity and art, and what it meant to be a, quote unquote, Christian artist. And I talked about this specific piece in my paper. So I actually started exploring contemporary modern because I was having issues in my Achilles tendon from doing a lot of pointe work.
[00:13:31] And so that was kind of the point. So it wasn't necessarily about it being more serious or anything to do with integrating my faith. I think the greatest thing about going to Houston was I met several people from Kansas City when I went to that intensive. And they're actually how I found out about the opportunities in Kansas City. So that was really the biggest influence, but for sure, I mean, it's influenced the work that I create or even--yeah, last  Christmas, I was performing at a performance called "Illuminate the Arts" by Arts Inspired Network. And I decided to not fully choreograph my work, but just to pick a song, sort of pick a theme, come up with a few phrases, and I felt free to improvise it.
[00:14:19]And that was, that was really fun. And sort of maybe an example of how I've integrated those sorts of things. I first saw it at Ad Deum. I think it's still in progress. I have a lot to learn. So maybe in about a decade, I'll have some more answers for you. Still figuring it out. But yeah, that initial vision I think is still there.
[00:14:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So do you foresee yourself continuing to pursue more along the avenues of modern and contemporary rather than more classical movement? Or are you kind of open or?
[00:14:57] Heidi Loubser: You know? I'm open. I think there are so many different factors when it comes to what you form. There's the movement style. There's the content, you know, what are you sharing through the movement? There's all the logistical implications of the time, commitment, et cetera. I think for me, what's really come out on top of the priority is that we truly care for the audience and that we're trying to give them something, and that I'm not just on stage, that I can have a good time.
[00:15:32]I think that's really--that generosity, I think, is the best word--has really come out on top for me is the main thing that I care about. So I think when I see that somewhere, then I ask questions about the movement or about the specific storylines that they're telling, et cetera. Yeah, I would love to do more modern and to learn more techniques. I'm not totally sure where I'm headed. Obviously as an educator, always wanting to get more professional development, to have more to share with my students.
[00:16:03] So there's definitely a draw there to study more modern. But I think, I think the biggest thing really is just, are we trying to offer something good and true to our audience? And if that's true, then I'm--I don't know--I'm willing to try something new. I'm willing to learn a new style if I feel like that is happening.
[00:16:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's a good kind of baseline standard to have. And so then, then it's easier to kind of navigate your opportunities. If it meets that standard, great, then maybe that's something to explore, and if it doesn't, yeah well, it's not for you. Yeah, I think that's, that's wonderful to have that kind of a clear, I dunno, set of guidelines that are things to kind of ponder.  Well, I have a few questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.
[00:16:48] Heidi Loubser: Yes, I'd love to hear them.
[00:16:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. All right. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?
[00:16:58]Heidi Loubser: Oh, gosh, we're jumping right in. Oh!
[00:17:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yes.
[00:17:03]Heidi Loubser: Well, I'll, I'll just start off by saying, I honestly don't completely know. I feel like the word is so it's thrown around so much that it-- I find myself in a conversation, I'm responding to how that person is defining it. Do you know what I mean? As long as we can commonly define in this conversation where this is what we're talking about, then that helps me.
[00:17:29]I think I maybe have a classical definition of visual art, performing art, you know?  I do think there's some amount of emotional tie to it.  I mean, even if I go out and look at the sunset, I think that can be, I guess, an artistic experience. I guess to me, it also really depends why we need to define it. So for example, if we're trying to define it for a grant process, you know, to decide who can apply, that's really different than trying to define it for the sake of my worldview .
[00:18:03] I tend to sort of go, okay, what category, what sphere of life are we in? And what is it applied to in this situation? Because if we're in school and we're talking about needing to give kids art classes, you know, as opposed to all the classes they already have, we're probably talking about a specific arts skill, such as drawing, singing, you know, playing an instrument. Even though the general idea of being creative, which I think some people would say, well, art is basically creativity. Well, I promise you, you need creativity in math. I mean, the kind of math classes I'm in there is no formula to find the answer anymore. It's literally, here's your differential equation. You need to guess the solution.  You know, if you see artists' creativity, well, that's very artistic. You need a lot of creativity. So, yeah, so that's why in my mind, that's too broad. I mean, everything has an element of art in it then.
[00:18:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, and, and, like art, you know, it's subjective. Everyone has a different kind of opinion on that. But yeah, so you're saying like, it depends. So you would define art in different contexts. So like, it depends on the context that, that the conversation is around how you would necessarily define art. Is that correct?
[00:19:14] Heidi Loubser: I think so. I think if I'm trying to one sentence to it, I mean, art is the act of creating . You know, we take one resource and we transform it into another. We take a body and we mold it to do certain things on stage. We take clay and we turn it into a sculpture. So maybe, yeah, the act of creating, if I had to boil it down to a phrase, but if you ask me in a year, I'm probably going to have a different answer.
[00:19:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I've not heard it said like that before, and I think that that brings up a very good point of the context does matter.  Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?
[00:19:50] Heidi Loubser: So, okay. Maybe this isn't a role but I think I would say--to be telling, or, you know, in dance or other forms we're not telling, but to be sharing the truth. I think of artists in some ways is a huge part of like the global marketing team. I mean, if you think about what people's opinions or worldviews or just what they believe about it, any number of things, art is often a huge part of, of how they got there. You know, we're not creating those ideas obviously, but I think artists are usually the ones expressing them or propagating them or suggesting that this is closer to what it should be, what we should be fighting for.
[00:20:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:20:35] Heidi Loubser: Or even if it's, as artists are bringing joy and we're just bringing some humor and laughter and, and entertainment, you know, which is totally real as well, that's suggesting that that's valuable in life, right? So in my mind, there's a lot of different things you could be expressing with art, but it's the most important thing for me is just that what you're expressing is, is true. It lines up with reality, which doesn't mean that it's not fictional. I mean, obviously you could do a play about a fictional story, but you're, you're sharing truth through that. Not that it's factually correct, but you're, you're promoting and you're encouraging things in life that are really important and matter.
[00:21:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think truth is really important in art.  Good answer. Okay. My final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit-- do you think, and just again, in your own opinion--that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And here's what I mean by that. So with exclusive, we're talking about an artist putting their work out into the world and not necessarily providing any particular context behind it so that the audience can take from it just what they want? Versus inclusive kind of referring to an artist that, you know, includes the program notes or has a description, or essentially you understand what the artist's intention was behind the piece, regardless of what you draw from it.
[00:22:07]Heidi Loubser: I've had a number of conversations about this topic, especially with my parents actually, because they very much, they always want more information. They always want to know what the artist intended. They're frustrated when they don't understand, which has been really helpful for me actually, especially from my father, because he's not a dancer. And so to go, okay, someone on the outside is looking for more information. If I have to choose one, I think I'm going to say inclusive. I, I think the way that I prefer it to happen is that the information is there, it's available, but it's not forced on the audience. You know? So I think, for example, putting it in a program note is a really great way to do that.
[00:22:51] The program is free at the door. They can read it if they want to. What I often choose to do personally is to read it afterwards. You know, I want that information, but I like to sort of just watch the piece for itself. If we're talking about dance first and then to hear what they had to say, but I also am trying to become more sensitive to the idea that there are a lot of people that feel totally lost. They feel stupid that they don't understand art. And I think, you know, if you teach, if you expect someone to read English, I mean, we taught them the letters, right? We taught them what each word means. You don't expect someone to pick up an English book and understand it if they don't know English.
[00:23:30] And I think in some ways, you know, like dancers, sculpture painting can be a whole other language. Oh, well the color red symbolizes this and the color blue symbolizes that and giving them that information is helping them to, quote unquote, "read" the painting. So, yeah, I would say yes, inclusive, but I also know that there are some artists who--they're specifically creating work for the intention of having other people interpret it through their experiences. So almost like therapy. They really, they don't want people to know their backstory. They want people to process their own experiences. And I think that can be helpful. I mean, I often think maybe if they would say that more clearly that people could walk away with more--if they know, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do in this scenario.
[00:24:19] Because I think sometimes people don't know that they're supposed to do that, or even that they're invited to do that. And so they're just scared. But yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say inclusive 'cause even as a dancer, as someone who's familiar with this world from the inside, there are still times when I wish I had more information. And so it's sort of like, if I wish that, then surely people who don't know this language at all, who've never been in a studio are going to want some level of context.
[00:24:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Love it.
[00:24:51] Heidi Loubser: These are great questions. Wow.
[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It, you know, and it's so interesting because it brings up a lot of interesting points and people have, have shared very different opinions on it. And I think that's important too, to have those conversations about sort of even just why you believe what you believe. Well, thank you so much again, Heidi. I really appreciate you sharing your stories and your insights. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I am a firm believer that when you do create and, and, you know--kind of referring back to what you were talking about earlier--when you're generous with your art and your heart and soul really come through with-- whether you're dancing or writing or solving problems when you're giving-- there's, there's so much power and beauty that comes from that. And I truly believe it makes the world more beautiful place. And so I just want to say thank you for sharing. Well, thank you so much again to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you feel as inspired as I do right now, I hope that you'll share with a friend and continue to share art with the world in that way. And I just want to say thank you, and we will catch you next time.
[00:26:07] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.
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