In today's episode in celebration of Kevin Dinneen's birthday month, I had him as my guest again on Artfully Told! He shares two powerful stories about his encounters with art: one when he first tap danced as a five-year-old, and one about his innovative way to save a show with his creative choreography idea. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of Kevin in our piece, "The Court(ing) Jester.")


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Episode 035 - Kevin Dinneen

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am very excited to have my husband, Kevin, on the episode today. And he actually has a really great story, actually, I guess, a couple of stories to share with us today. So I'm going to let you take it from here, Kevin .

[00:00:55] Kevin Dinneen: Okay.

[00:00:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Enjoy.

[00:00:57] Kevin Dinneen: Yes. So it's a two part-er and it's a theme and these are the two dance performances that I have been a part of. As, as far as performing since marrying you--I've had to, I've gotten to be behind the scenes, do a lot of things with performances, but these are the two shows that I've performed in. So the first time--I'll set the scene, 1985, I'm five years old. And I've been a part of a tap class where I was one of two boys and it was all girls otherwise. And the other guy's name was Andy. I don't know if it was sort of like a bulk ordering thing or if they just weren't available back then, but Andy and I had to wear the same tights as the girls. And so we also had pink tights and I'm not quite sure why, but we didn't have an option. It  comes time for recital and we're in this giant, giant theater, This theater was the stage was so big.

[00:02:11] The stage is the biggest non-separated area of space that I had ever stood on, and just like this open space. It was huge. And these spotlights were so big--just to, so this is Gardner, Kansas High School Theater, but as a five-year-old, this was one of the biggest theaters in existence, right? That's what it felt like. It was, I was so intimidated and I just remember the lights being so hot and bright, and I couldn't really see the audience that well. And, I don't have any idea how my performance went as far as if you take into account my current ability to follow choreography. If it's anything like it is now, it was way off, way behind, and just way wrong.

[00:03:07] But I don't even remember that, that doesn't even factor into the story. So what happened then, at the end, we do our bow, and I turned, everybody turns to the side we're supposed to exit on. And, and so I turn and I exit and I get to the end and sort of a weird situation 'cause there's like props and behind-the-scenes stuff like sandbox bags for the curtains and, and there's like lights and stuff, and it's really dark and tell them like, "Oh, this is, this doesn't look like when we came in." And I turned around to see the last person that was, that I was next to, exit on the other side of the stage. And I knew that I had gone the wrong way and there was no, I look around, there's no way it's like the storage closet kind of area, and there's no way to get across the stage without, or you get to the other side of the stage without going across the stage in front of everyone. Oh. And I just remember running as fast as I can, and maybe if I get there as fast as I can, no one will notice. And, but in my mind, in my mind, it never occurred to me that this is a tap recital. And so I start running just as the clapping stops and there's this "clink, clink, clink" gets everyone's attention. This bright pink movement with all this clinking goes screaming across the stage and there's laughter. All of these terrible, horrible parents decide it'll be fun to crush this little boy's spirits.

[00:05:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, oh.

[00:05:04] Kevin Dinneen: I quit. I quit after that. I was crying. I was a mess. I was crying and bawling and didn't want to talk about it. And, I'm done. I took off my tap shoes for the last time, that evening and never picked them up again.

[00:05:19] Lindsey Dinneen: That's such a sad story.

[00:05:21]Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. So then fast forward and, Lindsey, you were getting ready to launch your company. Actually, it was the very first show that you were going to be putting on. So Lindsey got presented with this opportunity where she met the director of the Fringe show for Kansas City, which is a big, like 10-day arts festival with all sorts of performing arts, singing, acting, all sorts of stuff, theater, I should say. And, and there was an open slot at the Kansas City ballet performing space there. What would you call that? A studio theater?

[00:06:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:08] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. So it was a studio theater for the Kansas City Ballet. And, after talking with her, she learned that there this open space was available and she had always thought about, or is it sort of like a dream of hers to start her own company. Well, now she has this opportunity to perform.

[00:06:32] Lindsey Dinneen: And, well, and to caveat, not just to perform, though that would have been super exciting in and of itself, but to actually produce a show, which was something that I had never done before in that kind of capacity of creating something from scratch. And just to give some context.

[00:06:53] Kevin Dinneen: Professional level paid gig.

[00:06:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Right, exactly, to that level. Yeah. I had never done anything like that before. And to give a little bit more context, I was presented this opportunity in what late April, I think. And then does that sound right?

[00:07:12] Kevin Dinneen: I was going to say early May.

[00:07:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Maybe early May...

[00:07:16] Kevin Dinneen: But it was, then was it June that the performance was going to happen in?

[00:07:22] Lindsey Dinneen: July.

[00:07:22] Kevin Dinneen: Oh July. Okay.

[00:07:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, but still to put that in perspective though.--so that was maybe a little over two months' worth that I had to put everything together. So that meant, you know, recruiting dancers and doing the choreography, creating the choreography, getting costumes, rehearsing so that we looked put together. I mean, that might not sound like that much, but that is a lot of work, and a lot put together from nothing in just a couple months. So, so first of all, perspective on, on all, how much this was like a big deal, like a full length.

[00:08:03] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Not just, you know, 20 minutes or something, 10 minutes.

[00:08:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Not a gig, like a whole thing. Yeah.

[00:08:11] Kevin Dinneen: And so, so Lindsey, I remember she was excited, but also nervous, and just had sort of a fear of failure that was kind of keeping her from committing right away. And I remember saying, "Okay, whatever you need help with, I will be there to help, whether it's finding music or props or whatever it is, technical stuff. I can do any of the behind-the-scenes stuff that you need done promoting it, coming up with copy for promotional purposes coming up with photos or videos. You know, we can, we can actually do this. I'm on board." And so I convinced her to do it. I didn't have to try that hard. I just said, "Hey, I'm in this with you. We can do it." And that was pretty much, just kinda someone else that would, that would be there to help.

[00:09:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:09:08] Kevin Dinneen: So, we could actually go back and find the actual date, but I think it was sometime in early June after rehearsing, you'd come up with all of the pieces that you needed for your show. You had recruited everyone, you had actually started setting choreography on your dancers. And, it was something like, do you think you were probably halfway through with, with a certain piece that was going to be--dance that was going to be in this?

[00:09:41] Lindsey Dinneen: I want to say, yeah, probably. I think I had already choreographed it. I mean, gosh, that was a while ago.

[00:09:47]Kevin Dinneen: Okay. So there was this one piece of the puzzle, that was a, it was a pas, right? It was a, it was for non-dancers at the duets, the two person dance.

[00:10:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Typically a one woman, one man.

[00:10:03] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, and so who was going to be her partner in that dance had an injury and wouldn't be able to do this piece. Now we're talking like weeks away and needing now to find a new idea or a replacement partner. So started looking for replacement partners that didn't work out. And, and there was sort of this time where Lindsey, it got to you.

[00:10:37]Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.

[00:10:39] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. It got to, you started feeling the pressure and, and then that got to me, 'cause I'm like, "Hey dude, you know, I'm here, let's do it." Well, what could happen? You know, you got this and, and I'll help. Well, I can't dance. And this is a professional thing. I can't go stand in. I can't go learn years' worth of things and get years' worth of practice and corrections in a, in a month. So I can't just stand in. So I decided that, I would make a comeback as a performer in a dance production. However, I just won't dance.   Well, I guess I did. My dancing won't be the... My dancing won't be the, the highlight of, of my portion. So I decided on this story where we have Lindsey as being sort of the center of attention for two men and one man dances. And then another man is juggling. So I'm the juggler in this. And, the story is basically, each of us vying for attention, vying for her attention. And, then me eventually winning, obviously, because I wrote this.

[00:12:02] Lindsey Dinneen: And we're married now. So...

[00:12:04] Kevin Dinneen: So yeah, I wrote it so that I would win the day. The beauty of this was I didn't have to dance. I fixed the problem and, and I fixed it by the other person in the da... the other guy in the dance didn't have to learn choreography. He would just do whatever he did whatever he wanted to do. There was a little bit of choreography between the two of you, but it wasn't as involved as the original thing. He was already, he couldn't do a whole 'nother piece, but with this, he just had to do a few tricks, mostly here and there. And so it kind of checked all the boxes and so I was able to then, it worked well. There was one hiccup, and I really need to start paying attention to my stage left and stage right directions. I, I had sort of a return of, of an issue from when I was five. And what happened was I, as, as part of the show, the last piece in the show was going to be sort of a, a piece making fun of, or kind of...

[00:13:17] Lindsey Dinneen: I called it my Murphy's Law rehearsal piece.

[00:13:19] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a, it was a comical please showing things that can go wrong during a rehearsal. And, or rehearsals in general, like people forgetting the right shoes or, you know, screwing things up, you know, any which way. And so, you know, we kind of...

[00:13:38] Lindsey Dinneen: It's an exaggerated  parody, but tons of fun.

[00:13:41] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And, so I finished my, my juggling piece, called "The Courting Jester" by the way. I was pretty proud of that title and, so I get done with my piece. And I'm also doing all the filming and, and taking photos and things like that on, in the pieces that I'm not in. So I go to get ready to get my camera stuff, and after my piece and I'm going along doing my thing. And then, and then I remember that, or I realized, "Hey, this is the piece before the final piece that is making fun of the rehearsal stuff and I'm in that. So I need to go get in place now."  So before the piece before the piece I'm supposed to be in...

[00:14:27] Lindsey Dinneen: So the second-to-last piece of the show...

[00:14:30] Kevin Dinneen: Thank you! Okay.

[00:14:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:14:32] Kevin Dinneen: When the house lights go down right before the second-to-last piece, I go get on the side that I'm going to go-- the side of the stage that I'm going to enter from, which is opposite where the Green Room and stuff like that is, and changing rooms and stuff. So, I'm there on that side of the stage, and the piece starts, and I realize that I need my juggling balls for this piece. And I left them in the Green Room on the other side of the stage. Flashback to when I was five. I can't run across the stage.  I can't run across the stage during the piece. Luckily in this case, there was a backdrop, a black curtain backdrop, and a little bit of space in between there and the wall. So I decided I have to get across the stage and retrieve my juggling balls and then get back before, as opposed to enter the stage. Now the trick is I can't hurry because it'll make the curtain kind of wave,  if you pass by it too quickly.

[00:15:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And, and just for context, so he's kind of referring to is there's like the wall of the theater. And then what do you say? Like a foot? Is it even that much of space?

[00:15:49] Kevin Dinneen: So I couldn't walk shoulder to shoulder.

[00:15:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Or straight.

[00:15:54]Kevin Dinneen: I had to like sidestep.

[00:15:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, along the wall, essentially.

[00:15:58] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, I would say 12 inches or a little bit less. Yeah.

[00:16:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, so it's not a whole lot of space and it goes to the wall and then you have a little bit of space and then the black backdrop, and then from there the stage. So you actually, we don't have quite the full depth of the stage, but just to give some context. So as he's trying to maneuver behind the backdrop, like he's saying, if you move too fast--you can't run because if you move too fast, then the curtain, the whole curtain ripples, and it's just super distracting for the audience. So, yeah.

[00:16:31] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. And then, and then I'm not supposed to be back there either.

[00:16:36] Lindsey Dinneen: 'Cause there's a lot of crossovers for the dancers in the piece.

[00:16:38] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. So that's the thing. That's what I was worried about. So I, I get back there and I'm moving across and then all this--you can't see like an arms length in front of you--I mean, it's, it's pitch black out there. Luckily the dancer that I passed, she was headed the opposite way. They're so dark and we didn't never talked about it. So I don't even know who it was. And, and we passed, we saw each other and then passed very, very slowly and I was jammed up against the wall. And, so I got to the other side and got my juggling balls from the Green Room and then slowly worked my way back across. And I think I had three seconds before I had to go on stage. Like I got to the--

[00:17:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wow.

[00:17:31] Kevin Dinneen: So I got, so there, there were like three wings. Is that right?

[00:17:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:17:35] Kevin Dinneen: So, so the wing is the side of the stage. And it's blocked so you can't see behind it, but they're like three depths of these curtains.  And I had to get to the farthest one to the thing. Keep in mind, there are all these side lights and stuff and cords going everywhere. And there's people standing there getting ready and there's props. And so by the time I got back, I really had about three seconds before I had to come out juggling. And, I got out and I did my juggling part, and realized, sort of I had this moment of, you know, being able to have conquered my problems with  my wings to the stage.

[00:18:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Redemption! I don't think I knew--and see, I, this, this kind of thing happens a lot in my dancers and guest artists, as I will consider Kevin are, smart not to tell me as things are happening, but later they tell me these stories, 'cause I definitely had no idea that--

[00:18:37] Kevin Dinneen: I'm pretty sure you didn't have any idea how close I cut it until right now.

[00:18:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, no, I didn't even realize it was that close.

[00:18:44] Kevin Dinneen: Even when I told you what had happened, I left out the three seconds.

[00:18:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And it's and yeah, my goodness. Yeah. And it's crazy because, you know, that's real life. Things like this happen all the time and, and crazy little things just go wonky. I mean, it's live theater. So, as they say, the show must go on and you never know, but yeah, that's, that's a pretty--I did not know that.

[00:19:15] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. And so in my mind too, I was like, so do I go out? And, and like fake, cause they've seen me juggled before, they'll know what I'm doing. And like, it might've worked. I could have improved and, and been like, you know, some sort of emotion like, "Oh shoot. I was supposed to bring juggling balls to the rehearsal, but I forgot. I'll just do this." And, you know, it could have worked. Never even crossed my mind until right now during the session I've told this story. I guess I don't think on my feet. 

[00:19:45]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and it's funny too, because I think-- well, you, you mentioned maybe like now you're kind of thinking through all the ways you probably could have made it happen and it would be no big deal. I mean, the audience wouldn't know the difference. And it's so funny because I think as dancers, when you grow up dancing, you have, you learn how to adapt really quickly to circumstances that you don't anticipate. So, and that's so common. I mean, there there've been, I can't even tell you how many costume changes I've had that have been super quick, where I barely made it on stage or didn't make it on stage for my cue. And then you have to figure out, "How do I adapt and how do I change?" And it's so interesting to hear it from your perspective. 'Cause I was thinking, I mean, even if you hadn't entered from the correct wing, I mean, you could have entered like a couple back and we could have, but you know, you don't think like that. You just think, and this is normal for, I think everyone, but you just sorta think like, "No, this is my role." Like, "This is what I've learned." And so you end up like rushing around and doing crazy stuff.

[00:20:49] Kevin Dinneen: Well, yeah, we rehearsed it so many times. Other people are depending on me to be where I'm supposed to be. And that's, you know, all I'm thinking is it's tunnel vision.

[00:20:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:21:00] Kevin Dinneen: What I rehearsed.

[00:21:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:21:01] Kevin Dinneen: It's, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah. So that was the last time that I performed so far.

[00:21:08]Lindsey Dinneen: I think he, he definitely, yeah. I mean, he's, he says that--but I remember after the performances, I remember you talking about, well, that was, that was my, what did you call it? Like your your one and done, or you're, you're retiring from performing after this or something . I don't remember. You had a funny catchphrase about it, I think.

[00:21:28] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, I did. I, I think I said I was going to go into retirement while my career was at its peak, something along those lines.

[00:21:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and we kind of glazed over this detail, but the reality is Kevin is actually an incredibly talented juggler. So you might not know this about him, but he wasn't just going out and doing very basic juggling--although that would have been impressive too, because I really can't juggle very well-- but, but no, you should actually talk about a little bit about your juggling career because you actually, this is an art that you have perfected. Yeah. It's a whole thing for you.

[00:22:07] Kevin Dinneen: So far from perfected, but yeah, I started juggling at 13 and it was a fun, sort of a hobby. And in my teens, I started working at a nursing home, and decided, you know, it might be fun to put on a little show for the residents at the nursing home. And, and, that was really my peak as far as being into juggling and juggling often. So I'd put on a show every Sunday night for those residents where I worked. And then I started doing shows at other, other nursing homes and assisted living places and retirement--that whole kind of idea. And I just kind of--so technically I was a professional gettting paid to juggle.

[00:22:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:52] Kevin Dinneen: But, yeah. And then since then, I hadn't really juggled seriously ever...

[00:23:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Since then...

[00:23:01] Kevin Dinneen: Until your show. And I decided to actually keep it simpler for your show, because I didn't want to screw up, because it had been so long. And I didn't realize it until after I saw the video that I had accidentally, and without even realizing it, slipped back into a complicated move called a Mill's Mess, where your arms, your hands crisscross while you're juggling. One hand goes over the other and then you switch mid-throw. And, I did not even realize that I had done that. And I think I did it every night, and I'd never even realized.

[00:23:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. We went back and watched the videos. And, and you had, you had done Mill's Mess perfectly every single night without even being aware, being conscious of that was what you were doing.

[00:23:52] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, I didn't realize it. I was just in the zone.

[00:23:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Which is probably good because, you know, if you, if you had gotten kind of into your head, you might've started doubting it versus just having that muscle...

[00:24:02] Kevin Dinneen: If I had planned it, I would have worried about it and yeah, you're right. I would have been in my head about it.

[00:24:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:24:09] Kevin Dinneen: Or, should I do that?  And for me, when I learned it, it's sort of a milestone. And, kinda marked I'm better than intermediate now. And so it would have probably--since I kind of defined myself as a more-than-intermediate juggler having learned that-- I wanted to kind of say intermediate level for the sake of the show so I didn't screw anything up. And I would have probably thought about that too much.

[00:24:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, I can see that. It, it's sometimes, it's just better to let your muscle memory take over, and magic happens that way sometimes. So yeah. So you have a background in juggling, and he likes to say sometimes that he was a professional in the, how do you put it? You call yourself, you, you did the?

[00:24:56] Kevin Dinneen: Oh, I worked the nursing home circuit.

[00:24:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Exactly. I love it.

[00:25:00] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I worked for the nursing home circuit.

[00:25:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word. I love it. So, yeah, so, so what do you think, are you officially retired or are you kind of leaving it open-ended? 'Cause...

[00:25:12] Kevin Dinneen: Well, you heard me say that I retired and I've said it several times...

[00:25:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, you know, but are you retired? Or like, you know, "retired?"

[00:25:21]Kevin Dinneen: Okay.  I would reprise that role. I would even expand it a little bit into like a three-part.

[00:25:31] Lindsey Dinneen: It could be a longer piece. It was very cute.

[00:25:34] Kevin Dinneen: And, you know, it was really just designed to fill the spot that was vacant. So yeah, I would be willing to do that.

[00:25:42] Lindsey Dinneen: All right, folks. You heard it. You heard it here. If I ever need to hold him to it, it's recorded. Oh my gosh.

[00:25:50] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. So I've already asked or I've, I've already answered your three questions.

[00:25:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah!

[00:25:56] Kevin Dinneen: Do you have three new questions for me?

[00:25:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, dear. You're my first repeat guest. So, no, I don't. Let me ask you this. Let's say you're at the end of your life and you can only witness one piece of art for the last time ever. So let's say this is like your, the last thing that you're gonna experience. Or, you know, like either you're gonna watch it or you're gonna look at it or you're gonna listen to it or read it or kind of whatever. What would that be?

[00:26:37]Kevin Dinneen: Can I say maybe one of two and like, if it were actually happening, maybe I would be able to decide?

[00:26:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. I think that's fair.

[00:26:46] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. So, so actually you're in both. Probably "The Courting Jester," or the first time I saw you perform, which is at the Kauffman Center for Performing Arts in Kansas City. And, the show is "Underground," telling the story of the Underground Railroad or a story within that complex situation. But I, I don't know, probably one of those two.

[00:27:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, yeah, that's a good answer. Okay, well, and for all of you listening, I actually have the ability for you to, to watch "The Courting Jester." So if you are particularly interested in seeing it, which it is really fun, then we will actually post the link to it so that you can see it, like I said on YouTube and to get a feel for the, at least the original version, and maybe we'll have a future rendition.  So definitely check that out on YouTube. And then, Kevin, do you offer any kind of personal juggling coaching, or is there a way we can connect with you outside ?

[00:27:57] Kevin Dinneen: So, you can connect with me. Comment on the video. And, if you're interested in learning how to juggle, I actually do have a method to teach that I came up with. And, so far, to have three juggling balls in the air at one time for a sustained length of time. We'll call it like a minute. I think my record is three minutes of teaching, so.

[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Yeah. And it's, it actually is a really, really good method to follow because I thought I could never juggle, and he taught me, and I'm not brilliant at it by any stretch of the imagination. I haven't practiced that much. But, but when I was practicing, based on his method is actually really simple to follow and it makes you definitely realize that you can do this if you want to. And you can just, as long as you practice it, it's a lot of fun. I had no hand/ eye coordination because I'm just not very gifted at sports or anything like that. And I just kind of assumed, "Oh, juggling is going to be another one of those things that is not going to come to me." 

[00:29:08] Kevin Dinneen: And I haven't monetized my method. So if you're just interested, I'll tell you how it's done.

[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Cool. Well, thank you very much, Kevin. I appreciate it. Thank you to all of you who have listened to this episode. We would love it if you would like to share with any of your friends who might just need a little burst of joy and inspiration, and we will catch you next time. That's all for today.

[00:29:36] Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share it with your friends. If you'd leave us a review and rating, and subscribe to our podcast, you'll get notified when the newest episodes come out. Thank you for sharing art with us, and we hope your day has been Artfully Told.

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