In this episode, I welcome Maggie Rader! Maggie is an AEA actor and Dramatists Guild playwright based in Cincinnati, Ohio. She shares some funny and touching stories about growing up and starting her career in children's theater. Maggie brings a unique perspective to the question of whether art should be inclusive or exclusive, and why context matters. 

 

Get in touch with Maggie Rader: www.maggielourader.com
Watch "Drunk Santa Christmas Spectacular" online: https://www.cincyshakes.com/event/drunk-santa/ 

 

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Episode 30 - Maggie Rader

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Maggie Lou Rader.

[00:00:43] Maggie Rader: Hello!

[00:00:44] Lindsey Dinneen: She is an-- hi!!  She is an AEA actor and Dramatists Guild playwright based in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so thank you so much Maggie for being here!

[00:00:58] Maggie Rader: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk to another person!

[00:01:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Right? Yes. And I would love if you would share with our audience just a little bit about maybe who you are and your background and whatever you want to share.

[00:01:15] Maggie Rader: Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in Southwest Oklahoma in a really, really teensy town, got out and moved to the big city of Kansas City, Missouri. And, got a four year graduate degree. I may as well have been living in Manhattan. I thought it was the most cosmopolitan. It's like, oh my God, there's a Starbucks on every corner. And, I was lucky enough while I was there to study at Oxford University and go overseas, and then for grad school, I actually went back to England and studied at the Birmingham School of Acting in the UK and came back to the States, toured around for a little while doing children's theater, which is the best acting experience I've ever had because third graders are the most honest audience of all time.

[00:02:00] And then I've been in Cincinnati for 10 years. This is my--it's my 10th season as a resident actor at the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company. But I'm also lucky enough to perform at other area theaters in Dayton and Louisville. I'm living here in Cincinnati with my husband and three fur babies with four eyes between them. And we're both lucky enough to make our living performing on stage most of the time, not right now, but in our normal lives, that's what we do.

[00:02:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yes. I think everyone's idea of normal has shifted a bit lately. Awesome. Okay. So something peeked my interest--well, everything--you're obviously super accomplished, but something tweaked my interest immediately. And you were talking about children's theater and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing some of the differences between performing for kiddos versus performing for adults.

[00:02:55] Maggie Rader: Oh, sure. It's the highs and the lows are just so much higher and lower. Like I have performed, what I did is I toured around with Kentucky Shakespeare for an entire year. I did about 500 performances of this two-person "Taming of the Shrew," that was all about manners and, you know, doing "Taming of the Shrew" for kids--doing "Taming of the Shrew" anyway, is a bit problematic. And if you don't address the problematic nature and why it's still important to do the play cause misogynists and misogyny still exists today, so why do we pretend like it doesn't? And these kids would always, they actually asked the most insightful questions. Like "Why was Kate so mean?" It's like, "Well, why do you think she was so mean?" And like, "Well, her dad, wasn't very nice to her." And it's like, yeah, a lot of adults don't pick up on that. It's like, "Yeah, I'd be mad too if my dad treated me the way he does and my sister was treating me the way that she does." And, but they are just the most honest audience. Ever. And that includes if you were being funny or not. And, more than once we did have kids leave the gym or wherever we were performing and there was, there were puddles on the floor cause they were laughing too hard. And it's just the cutest thing. It's like, "I'm so sorry you pee your pants," but what a great compliment, I guess.

[00:04:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh indeed.

[00:04:21] Maggie Rader: So it's, I, I encourage all my students when I'm teaching people coming out of college, do one year of performing for kids. You are going to learn more about your craft and yourself, and you're going to get more performances under your belt. Then if you perform in a live fancy theater for adults, which is really fun and really great, but I would not be half of the actor I am today if I hadn't done children's theater at first.

[00:04:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. It's so fun to perform for kids. I think I love what you said that they're the most honest audience. I mean, they really are. I remember performing back a few years ago, we used to do a show and two out of the four or five shows that we did were for kids specifically. And it was always so fun because they would laugh and they would comment and they would cheer and they were so involved, versus the adults sort of just sit there. And it's awkward, cause sometimes when things are intended to be funny, you don't get any response and you're kind of like, "Well, that was fun."

[00:05:29]Maggie Rader:  It's true. You know, even as we perform now, you know, in the big fancy theater for adults, especially doing Shakespeare, we still do a lot of educational matinees for students. And depending on what show we're doing, depends, you know, we did a "Midsummer Night's Dream" a few years ago, so we did have a lot of younger students come to see it. And my favorite thing about doing Shakespeare for kids versus adults is there so much direct address, and you know, when Shakespeare was being written, they intended for the actors to go talk to the audience and that they're probably going to respond to you because there was no concept of the fourth wall until after Shakespeare's death. And so when you perform for kids and you go ask them to be, or not to be, and when they, they respond, obviously to be, that'd be stupid, Hamlet. And when they actually respond to you, and the adults don't because, you know, there's this stigma of  Shakespeare. And I must sit and listen and let the poetry wash over me and kids are actually involved. It's like, you know, when Puck comes out on stage and the kids tell Puck where everyone is. Like, oh, it's, it's delightful.

[00:06:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Yes. So I'm sure this is going to be one of those terribly difficult questions to answer, but is there a play that stands out to you as being your favorite, either to perform or to watch? I know. You can pick a couple.

[00:07:01] Maggie Rader: What a good, good, good question. One of my, I think my dream role of dream roles was to play Maggie the Cat in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." And, I got to do it--oh, in 2017, I think-- it was a few years ago and it was just so much fun. You know, we worked with a really great director called Michael Haney who works in Missouri a lot, as well, but, oh my gosh, when that play is done well, and it moves and it's quick. You know, the audience came every night expecting, you know, the Elizabeth Taylor movie, which, oh my gosh, the script is awful. Like they just absolutely decimate the story and they take the onus away from Maggie at the end and they make it Brick's choice to go upstairs and, and they just completely changed the ending of the play.

[00:07:54] And so it's fun to do plays like that, where the audience thinks they, they think that they know the story. Like "Romeo and Juliet." Everyone thinks that they know "Romeo and Juliet," but when you start making sex jokes and the audience is completely taken off guard, it's like, well, it's the dirtiest play in the cannon. There's a lot of sex jokes, but it's really fun to do those plays that the audience, especially our smart adult audiences think they know, but they don't. And so I think "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" was, it was a really special one for me and it was, it, you know, it's always nice when other people appreciate. And it's, it was nice to hear that the staff at the theater, still a lot of them think it's their favorite show that we've done in our new space. And, that always does my heart good. However, if I'm going to go watch a play, I want to watch August Wilson's "Fences" every day of the week. It is one of the most beautiful pieces of poetry and life I've ever seen. August Wilson's "Fences," maybe one of my favorite plays of all time. I never going to be in it, but there is not a role for me in it, but by golly, I love watching it.

[00:09:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. So I'm curious, have you always been very brave, so to speak, and bold, or did you ever deal with stage fright or how did that all evolve?

[00:09:26] Maggie Rader: You know, I think I'm just one of those dumb, lucky people that it's never occurred to me to not just be loud and say what I think. And I, I'm sure-- I know you know my father and I'm sure that when I, the very first time I ever performed was in kindergarten. And you know, my father will also tell you, I have about as much patience as he does, and they were all auditioning us for our, we were doing this Valentine's Day variety show, as you do in kindergarten. And I wanted to do the Valentine's dance with the beautiful Craig Johnson. Oh, my gosh. What if Craig Johnson listens to this? Craig, I had such a crush on you in kindergarten! And I just wanted to do the Valentine's dance with Craig Johnson and they were auditioning kids for the "12 Days of Valentines." Like the "12 Days of Christmas." And the first day of Valentine's was "a fox in a fur coat." And if you count the syllables, there's not enough syllables. So it had to be "and a fox in a fur coat" at the end, and it makes no sense. And all these kids were tripping over it and couldn't get it right. And they're parading all these kids up trying to say, "and a fox in a fur coat." And I was getting so frustrated that they. I finally just slapped the table, stood up and said, "Guys, how hard is it to say "and a fox in a fur coat." And I sat back down, and stupid me, got the part when I didn't even want it. And I didn't get to do the Valentine's Day dance with Craig Johnson.

[00:11:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, but it launched your acting career. That is a fantastic story. Oh, my word, I love that. So then did you ever get to have a dancing role or was that like, "I really wanted it then and didn't need it later on."

[00:11:26] Maggie Rader: You know? No, I've done two musicals in my entire life. One of them was in college. I had to do "Pippin." I had to do "Pippin." It was my senior year. It was the first musical they'd done in a really long time. And I didn't go and audition because I can't sing or dance. And the head of the department called me into his office and he said, "Maggie, I noticed that you didn't audition for 'Pippin.'" Oh yeah, "No, not at all." And he said, "Maggie, you're going to be in 'Pippin.'" It's like, "I don't want to be in "Pippin." I will fail at "Pippin." And I would rather not be in 'Pippin.'" And he said, "Suck it up, deal with it. You're in 'Pippin.'" And so I had to be a player in "Pippin" and I still don't like that musical. I think it's weird. Like, it's not even just weird. I just don't think it's very good. And maybe I'm... might be treason when it comes to musical theater, but I don't like "Pippin." I don't like the music. I just don't like it and..

[00:12:25] Lindsey Dinneen: That's fine!

[00:12:26] Maggie Rader: And I have bronchitis the whole show, so I couldn't even sing. So I was lip-synching the whole thing. And then some fool cast me--I was very blonde in college--some fool cast me in "Sugar." And "Sugar," the musical, which is the musical version of "Some Like It Hot" and it's not a very good musical. It didn't run on Broadway for very long, but I had to play Sugar Shell in "Sugar," the musical, and the sweet music director stayed after and coached me through the songs. Cause I don't have a very good ear for music, and luckily I didn't have to dance that much in it either. But I do, because of Shakespeare, we tend to do bergamasques at the end of the shows, which, well, the end of the comedies. In Shakespeare's day, every play, whether it was comedy, tragedy, or history, they did a bergamasque, a dance at the end of the show. So, you know, it's the smothered Desdemona gets up from the bed and does the bergamasque dance at the end of "Othello." But so I've had to do lots of dancing in Shakespeare, but luckily I'm doing it with a bunch of other Shakespearian actors and I move better than most of them, which gives me hope.

[00:13:35]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, there you go.

[00:13:38] Maggie Rader: So I had to do it, whether I liked it or not.

[00:13:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Fair enough. Okay. So what was the moment or maybe series of moments that led you to realize, "this is my calling?"

[00:13:51] Maggie Rader: You know, I think like many artists, who, who live in cities-- you know, the arts gave me an outlet in high school. High school wasn't fun. Was high school fun for anybody? If it was, I don't think I'd trust them.

[00:14:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I don't either.

[00:14:08] Maggie Rader: Yeah. And it, it gave me something to do when I was living in a really small rural town and didn't have a ton of friends and, but I quickly found out, I like this. I'm good at this. This is fun. And I auditioned in college. I was going to be a radio production major in college, but then they ended up selling the the radio station and the entire program. So I was like, "Well, do I switch schools? Do I, what do I do?" And luckily I had a really lovely head of the department--who made me do "Pippin" later, but I'll forgive him-- but he said, "You know, I think you could do this if you wanted to." And it just never really occurred to me that I could be a professional stage actor. I thought, "Oh yeah, I can do radio. I can, you know, do news broadcasting." And there are avenues that I can do that are still performance, but it's probably a more responsible career choice. So I was really looking at a journalism and things like that. Oh, well, cause it's, this is what I love to do, so I guess I'll try it,  and I kind of made that decision in college, and yeah, it's been going great ever since. Lucky me. But yeah, until COVID hit. I've been working since I got out of school and so has my husband. So.

[00:15:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's awesome. That's absolutely fantastic. Well, are there any moments sort of along the way of your, your life, your journey, that really stand out as an encounter with art to kind of tuck away and remember?

[00:15:39] Maggie Rader: Yeah, totally. You know, I-- and I know I said that I did a lot of children's theater, but I do also do a lot of teaching too-- and actually when I was on that children's tour, for the Kentucky Shakespeare, right out of grad school, I was out in Eastern Kentucky. So we were staying in Hazard, because it was the biggest town. And then we were going to all these rural schools in the mountains. So we were out there for an entire week, and working, and going to every single children or, elementary school in the county. And so I was in a classroom and I was doing a workshop where the kids each had to do, they had to be one of the witches in Scottish play. And we were just talking about what it means to be a witch, or it's like, "Okay, well, this play's been done for 400 years. So how can we put our own spin on it and make it our own Scottish play?" Because all Shakespeare really wants is that these witches are not human, so if we're producing our own Scottish play, what would we want our witches to look like and sound and move? And so I gave out the, you know, "When shall we three meet again?" scene, and broke the kids into groups of three.

[00:16:47] And I just saw this one kid who was just shut down from the very, very, very beginning. And I went over to him and I said, "Hey, do you need some help?" And the teacher just talked to the entire classroom and she said, "Oh, he don't read." I kind of stopped. And I said, Hhe don't read well, or at all?" And she said, "Oh no, he don't read at all." It's like, okay. And so I pulled him aside and I said, "Hey, if I, if I read it to you, can you remember it?" And he's like, "Oh yeah!" And it just broke my heart that it felt like this kid had been given up on by his class and his teacher. And it's like, this kid is smart. He needs to read in a different way.

[00:17:33] And he hasn't been helped. But if a kid can memorize an entire scene of Shakespeare, if I read it to him first, that kid's smart. And he did! I read it out loud and he remembered every line he had and it just--you know, and when I was growing up, the only arts experience we had in high school was Miss Oklahoma coming and talking to us about following your dreams or something. I don't know. And that was our arts exposure in high school. And I thought, "God, if we can find a way to connect to these rural kids, so that they know that the arts is an avenue, or even a way to channel what you're going through. You know, you don't have to do it as a career, but if it helps you learn, if it helps you learn how to read, what a way to not give up on those kids who learn differently."

[00:18:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Wow, what a story! I, it's amazing to me. I mean, I would think very few adults would be able to hear a monologue or whatever one time and be able to quote it. I mean, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I don't think most of us could ever do that. Yeah. Ah, so I hope, yeah, that's, that's a really amazing moment. And I, I can only imagine that that definitely made an impression on him, and just realizing that there are alternate ways of learning or expressing or whatever, and that's a big deal.

[00:19:09] Maggie Rader: I think, cause that was 12 years ago, you know, the kid is, it's an adult now. And I, I still think about him a lot. I hope he's doing well.

[00:19:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for sharing that story. That's really impactful. So I'm curious, I know that like so many artists, lately you've sort of had to just, you know, switch gears a little bit, be a little more creative in your approach to continuing to do your art. And I, I know that you have something coming up. So do you mind sharing a little bit about, you know, maybe like what's happened, how you kind of transitioned during this time and sort of what's what's coming up for you?

[00:19:50] Maggie Rader: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's been tough. I was running a really wonderful play called "Alabaster" by a good friend and playwright named Audrey Cefaly. And I was running that in March and we ended up having to close the last week of the show. And it was tough, but luckily I've been able to dive more into my writing, which has been fabulous. And it's not really, I've been writing a lot faster during COVID because I'm not having to memorize lines and go do shows at night. So I've actually been able to, I finished a full length called "The Helpers," which follows the story of Miep Gies, who helped the Frank family high during World War II. And it was supposed to have a workshop at DePaul University last May, and because of COVID, it was all virtual, which meant I didn't have to go up to Chicago once a week, which was probably helpful.

[00:20:39]But that play has been finished. And, the reading of, of it is online and able to view on my website. I've also written a play called "The Wonder," start to finish, which is a full length, since COVID hit. And it's about the true story, so they say, of the first documented spiritual possession in the United States, which took place in Watseka, Illinois. So I keep calling it an American Midwestern ghost story for mothers and daughters, and it's very sweet. But it it's about healing and connection. So I'm sure there's a reason why that's the story that kind of came to fruition during COVID. But it is a story about family and connection and deep, deep, deep healing. But it's lovely. It's just a little five hander that's about an hour and a half long and, we did a reading of it via Zoom, and that's also available on my website too. But then as an actor, it's been really great to see the theater companies, you know, trying to produce and create during this time and keeping their audience bases engaged.

[00:21:43]So normally right now, my husband and I would both be in rehearsals for the Christmas show at the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company called, "Every Christmas Story Ever Told," which is kind of a mashup of everyone's favorite holiday movies and books and things like that. It's very fun and silly. But since we can't do it this year instead, they got the four of us, the actors who would have done the show, together. And we did a lot of writing. So we kind of had a, you know, SNL style or writing session for a week. And then we recorded what we're calling "Drunk Santa's Holiday Spectacular." It's, it's very fun. It's silly. The four of us come over to Santa's apartment in the North Pole. And, you know, she's just not feeling up to delivering presents this year. And so we try to see what's on television to kind of get her spirits up and it's-- so I, we have, it's like we wrote our own Hallmark movie and a 92nd Hallmark movie, a sketch about the proud bucks that are trying to kidnap Rudolph because he's forcing them to wear masks.

[00:22:58] And, what else? I wrote something else for it, and I can't even think of it.  What else did we even do? It, like I filmed it two weeks ago. And these days in COVID the days are, the days are long and the weeks are short. So the Great British Baking Show. That's what I wrote. Right. So as, as hosts are coming and going so fast that, oh, who's the Hell's Kitchen guy, Gordon Ramsey. Gordon Ramsey is one of the new hosts on the Great British Baking Show and it's delightful and fun and silly. And, so we're just trying to mash up topical things from 2020, but also fun holiday traditions. And it's going to be about an hour long and it premieres, I think, December 4th is when, and you can get a DVD of it. You can stream it and watch it online, whatever's easiest for you, but it's, it's gonna be a lot of fun and hopefully a lot of laughs.

[00:24:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. I just, as soon as you said the title, I was like, "Oh, I'm in. Definitely. Oh, how fun!"

[00:24:08] Maggie Rader: It all started--the company used to do that show on a stage at a local bar called Arnold's, which is a lovely, it's the oldest, one of the two oldest operating bars in the United States. Like they still operated during prohibition, and so the show started on this itty bitty courtyard stage, and they needed kind of a stage manager. So they dressed up this wonderful Australian actress in town, and she was Drunk Santa, who was also pretending to be Drunk Santa, also pretty much being the stage manager and running sound cues and things like that. But now that the show is on our big stage and has-- I've been going now for 15 years--it's like, well, now Drunk Santa is just kind of a part of it. And since we were writing our own thing, it's finally time for it to be Drunk Santa show.

[00:24:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. I can't wait to watch this. I'm very excited. Well, awesome. I have a couple of questions that I love to ask my guests, if you're okay with that. Awesome. Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:25:15] Maggie Rader: Oh, what a good question. How do I define art or what is art to me? I think just expression. Yeah, expression. My mom is a wonderful visual artist and, I growing up, I wanted to be an artist because that's what my mom was. And when I realized I didn't have a lot of visual art skills, I was so sad that I was like, you can't be an artist. Like my mom and I, when I was wanting to do plays and things, I said, "Mom, does that still make you an artist?" She's like, "Well, yeah, of course it does." It's like, "Oh, thank God. I can still be an artist like my mom." And yeah, I think it's just expression, whatever it is to you. Because what is the opposite of art? Like stagnation? Yeah, I guess I just say expression.

[00:25:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Okay. I love it. Well. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:26:06] Maggie Rader: Oh, to connect, I'd say. You know, we were joking before we started rehearsing. It's like, "Oh, why does live theater still exist when movies are around?" And if you mess up, you can just start over and you only have to do it once then. But that's why live theater is still around. It's so much about connection. And I feel like out of all the, and maybe that's why I love the stage. It's, I feel like when you're doing live theater, you get to connect so much more than in other artistic mediums that I love, and enjoy, but it's not my particular passion. So yeah, I think the most important role is, or thing you can do, is to connect.

[00:26:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And exclusive referring to somebody who puts their art out into the world and doesn't provide a whole lot of context behind it, so it's really up to the audience to kind of determine what they will. Versus inclusive referring to an artist who does share some context, whether that's a title or program notes or Q&A or anything like that.

[00:27:22]Maggie Rader:  What a good question. I, I don't know if I think that they're both completely separate things, I guess. And what a great discussion to have, you know, it's, as we talk about artists' work and, you know, enjoying Michael Jackson's body of work, even though he may have been a child predator. And I, I say may have been because he was never found guilty and, or, you know, R Kelly, can you enjoy people's work while knowing possibly the background of what was happening in their lives when they created it? And it's just such a good conversation to always be having. And also as artists, what a responsibility we have, you know. It's, my husband and I were having a long talk about politicians. We had our third member of city council in Cincinnati that was arrested this week for bribery charges. And we just talked about how, what a responsibility it is when you do go into the life of, of politics. Was Bill Clinton's impact on our society lessened because of what he did in his personal life? That you go into some professions and you have a greater responsibility that's bigger than yourself.

[00:28:45] And I feel like art is part of that. And because yes, I think, to use "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof," as an example, Maggie the Cat was based on a woman called Maria St. Just who was half Russian, half English, and just this force of a woman. And, you know, she was engaged to this dude who was very rich, a Prince of something or other. And, she went out and bought him a tie for every day of the week. Two for Sundays. And he was so embarrassed that she'd done that, that she'd spent all this money for ties and he said, "Well, what are you going to do with my money when we get married?" She said, "Oh, do you have some? Well, then I'll probably spend it." And he left her and they never got married. And she was like, "Well, that was, that's not fair. I was just honest with him."

[00:29:40] But there's this really great memoir of, like, I guess it's the letters that Tennessee Williams and Maria St. Just wrote back and forth when she was, you know, just starting out as an actor and, Tennessee Williams was a nobody writer and they met at a party and just had a wonderful friendship for the rest of his life until he died. And reading these letters back and forth, to me who was playing Maggie, it made that role so much deeper. And, you know, I've never seen Maggie as the villain of that story and even more so after I, I read the book, but if you wanted, it's fabulous, it's called "Five O'Clock Angel" and it's a wonderful book, but that play means so much more to me knowing whom Maria St. Just was. So, I guess I'd have to thank you for listening to me yammer on while I worked that out for myself.

[00:30:33] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it.

[00:30:34] Maggie Rader: Because at the risk of, of course, I guess it has to be inclusive because, I do have guilt when I enjoy Michael Jackson's art and that's for me-- you know, I, I will never judge someone else's line when it comes to that, I guess, but for me, I, his work is tainted now for me. R Kelly, like I can't watch "Space Jam" the same way, and that's probably a really small price to pay because you know, it's "Space Jam." But yeah, it's tainted for me, knowing the kinds of things that man has done, and which is why, you know, Tennessee Williams is one of my favorite playwrights because, I respect, you know, what he did for his sister and his mother. So when I read "Glass Menagerie," I can't divorce what he did for his, for his sister who was lobotimzed. When I read "Glass Menagerie," it brings so much more depth to that story for me. So, yeah, I guess inclusive. It should be inclusive decidedly. 

[00:31:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Very good. I actually really appreciate your working it out because it was-- I think that you bring actually a really good, unique perspective to this. And I, nobody has talked about it quite in those terms of how much the context matters to how you can personally enjoy it. And I really actually think that that's a really good point to make because that it does make a difference and, you know, to kind of dismiss that isn't particularly fair. 

[00:32:11] Maggie Rader: You know, be Banksy and keep her anonymity. And I guess that is valid as well, but also the anonymity of it is its own persona on it, of itself. So you still can't enforce it, can you?

[00:32:24]Lindsey Dinneen: In, indeed

[00:32:26] Maggie Rader: Oh, my brain just exploded.

[00:32:29] Lindsey Dinneen: There we go. Well, you never know what a conversation about art will do. Awesome. Okay. Well, so first of all, thank you so much, Maggie, for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. Love your stories. You've got some absolutely fantastic ones. Yeah. And I was just wondering if any of us want to kind of get in touch with you or follow your work, especially watch your upcoming film, is there a way that we can do that?

[00:32:58] Maggie Rader: Absolutely. I try to keep my personal website up-to-date all the time. So if you go to, it's just my whole name, maggielourader.com. And my last name is spelled R A D E R, and on my home page, there is a link to Cincy Shakes' site where, 1) you can watch the trailer of the "Drunk Santa Holiday Spectacular," which is fun and delightful all on its own, and you can also purchase a DVD. You can purchase the streaming rights that'll be available on December 4th, but you can get your tickets now. And you can also go to my playwriting page. And if you want to see the Zoom readings of either "The Helpers" or "The Wonder," they're all up there. And you can absolutely contact me through my website or just sending an email, which is just my first and last name, Maggie Rader, R A D E R@live, L I V E.com. Or you can just do the Contact Me page on my website and it'll send me an email directly. So either one works.

[00:34:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you. And I just want to say, you know, on behalf of myself and our listeners and all the people that you touch through your art, thank you for being a brave, bold person who stands up for when you know, the fox is in the fur or whatever, and you need to demonstrate that! But seriously, thank you so much for sharing your art with the world and for sharing it with kids that you teach and with adults that you have conversations with. I think that makes such a difference in people's lives. And, I just appreciate that that's what you've chosen to do with your life. So thank you.

[00:34:47] Maggie Rader: Thank you. Thank you so much for this. This is, I hope it's been fun for all, cause this has been just delightful to sit and chat with you.

[00:34:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it has been delightful and I'm, I'm sure our readers feel the, or listeners--here we go--feel the same. I mean, you can read the transcript so it could be readers too. Well, thank you so much again, Maggie, and thank you to all of you who have listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:35:24] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:35:33]Hey Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told for listening to the episodes and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you.  I do the whole podcasts myself, from the interviews themselves, to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment. And then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast even very small monthly donation, like $5 a month would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the Artfully Told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors, so everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

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